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Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 10:56 am
by Rusty Spinner
This belongs in Conservation, but I wanted to get max eyes on it ASAP. The Division has proposed some excellent regulation changes for the protection of our native brook trout as well as wild trout of all 3 species, yet very few anglers have bothered to comment in support. However, the other side is commenting against them, so this is my last ditch effort to get some traction. All you need to do is email today which is the last day for public comment.

On top of regulations that would better protect wild trout, one proposed change is getting hammered for all the wrong reasons and that is allowing private clubs to remain open on a catch & release only basis during the spring closure for trout stocking which is late March up to Opening Day. We all know how packed the Special Regulation waters (No-Kills and TCAs) are during this period, and allowing clubs to remain open on a C&R will help spread out that angler pressure. Those against this see it as "rich people get to fish but we don't" which is not the case. Many clubs are not for the rich, but some are, of course. This has nothing to do with wealth; it's about spreading out angler pressure when our first mayflies and early caddis are hatching, the weather is improving, and anglers want to fish for trout. Please follow the link below, thanks.

http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2 ... osal18.htm

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 1:43 pm
by johnw
Done

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 3:10 pm
by Rusty Spinner
johnw wrote:Done


Thanks! If you want to see the negative side, check out NJFishing.com.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 7:38 pm
by Drossi
Rusty Spinner wrote:
johnw wrote:Done


, check out NJFishing.com.



What a hack site. They have their panties in a wad over 3 treble hook stick baits. I wouldn't win many friends over there. :)

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 7:44 am
by Skink
Opening of private club waters during the spring closures? Only if that means those private club waters are open to the public during that time. I understand the proposal is to open those private waters to be C&R during that time, so why not open all waters during that time to be C&R?

This proposal smells of special privileges for those belonging to private clubs and to hell with the common Angler.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 1:47 pm
by Drossi
Skink wrote:Opening of private club waters during the spring closures? Only if that means those private club waters are open to the public during that time. I understand the proposal is to open those private waters to be C&R during that time, so why not open all waters during that time to be C&R?

This proposal smells of special privileges for those belonging to private clubs and to hell with the common Angler.


Who gives 2shits about private club waters??? Been fishing NJ for 40+ years and have never even given club waters a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd thought. Plenty of good public access waters to worry about clubs. I don't see why anyone that's not a member even cares about what they can or canal do at the private clubs. As far as the "closed " season goes, it's less than a month DEAL with it, it's not that long. Besides there's enough special reg waters open that it's not like you can't fish at all.

People bitching for the sake of bitching, nothing more.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 3:59 pm
by Skink
You have a lot of good points that private club members should take to heart, its only a month and there is plenty of special reg water, so they should deal with it.

Every change should be an approvement for the greater good, this proposed change does not have one.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 7:41 pm
by jholland
Skink,
The reason to open private clubs willing to register as such with NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife is not grant special privileges but rather to spread out angler effort. Wild Trout streams and TCA's see some of their greatest use during this closed season. Club members fishing their water as C&R which most do anyway accomplishes that goal. Many of our trout stocked waters have stretches not open to the public for a variety of reasons. Sometimes there is a club. If you can access water above or below a club, you might find excellent fishing from time to time as the clubs stock fish that are larger than most of the state fish. The KLG is an excellent example. The Solitude Club manages about a half of a mile but they stock quite a few fish. Ever wonder where those big Browns come from? Or maybe they are fish the Shannon's stocks above the Gorge.

As far as the other regulatory proposals go, we've volunteered as conservation volunteers to electrofish the South Branch for the last several years. We know what's in there. There is only so much water but what we've found is that above Long Valley, wild populations of Brook and Brown trout are pretty strong. After several years of moderate to severe drought the fish need some help, Brookies especially.

Every spring angler effort goes way up. What we are trying to do in this proposal is to direct that effort along stretches of the river that will be very well stocked, probably better than they are now. If someone wants some solitude to fish for wild trout, they will have it and the fish will have a better chance to get through the busy season.

You may or may not agree with my take on this but I thought I should take the time to explain the position. I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years. -Jim

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 8:03 pm
by The Royal Coachman
Drossi wrote:
Rusty Spinner wrote:
johnw wrote:Done


, check out NJFishing.com.



What a hack site. They have their panties in a wad over 3 treble hook stick baits. I wouldn't win many friends over there. :)


To exclude the stick baits was a bit of a head scratcher for me since it's not back up by science. Why include this? The amount of people fishing more than 3 hook points are a minority anyway. Why single them out? I was watching that thread on njfishing and nobody was able to defend that proposal. That's the only thing I have a problem with in the proposal.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 8:36 pm
by Skink
jholland wrote:Skink,
The reason to open private clubs willing to register as such with NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife is not grant special privileges but rather to spread out angler effort. Wild Trout streams and TCA's see some of their greatest use during this closed season. Club members fishing their water as C&R which most do anyway accomplishes that goal. Many of our trout stocked waters have stretches not open to the public for a variety of reasons. Sometimes there is a club. If you can access water above or below a club, you might find excellent fishing from time to time as the clubs stock fish that are larger than most of the state fish. The KLG is an excellent example. The Solitude Club manages about a half of a mile but they stock quite a few fish. Ever wonder where those big Browns come from? Or maybe they are fish the Shannon's stocks above the Gorge.

As far as the other regulatory proposals go, we've volunteered as conservation volunteers to electrofish the South Branch for the last several years. We know what's in there. There is only so much water but what we've found is that above Long Valley, wild populations of Brook and Brown trout are pretty strong. After several years of moderate to severe drought the fish need some help, Brookies especially.

Every spring angler effort goes way up. What we are trying to do in this proposal is to direct that effort along stretches of the river that will be very well stocked, probably better than they are now. If someone wants some solitude to fish for wild trout, they will have it and the fish will have a better chance to get through the busy season.

You may or may not agree with my take on this but I thought I should take the time to explain the position. I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years. -Jim


Jim - Actually, opening it up to club members does not accomplish the goal you stated. if you really wanted to spread out the angling pressures then why not open all waters to C&R during that time period? It will accomplish the same goal and make it fair to all anglers, not just club members. Personally I think there should be any changes in this regard, but I hate when rules are changed that does not benefit all anglers the same. That is my biggest objection.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 3rd, 2017, 12:38 am
by jholland
Skink,
Club waters aren't open to the general public but when the season is closed, everybody fishes the available open water which are the TCA's and the wild trout streams. The general regulation waters are closed for stocking. The areas of private waters are stocked privately. Given the fact that our weather warms or seems to warm more quickly now, it may be that we would be better off opening our waters earlier to general fishing. It certainly would give us more weeks to fish. In some really warm years, the Hendrickson hatch happens before the traditional opening day. I can see that happening if trends continue.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 3rd, 2017, 7:44 am
by Skink
jholland wrote:Skink,
Club waters aren't open to the general public but when the season is closed, everybody fishes the available open water which are the TCA's and the wild trout streams. The general regulation waters are closed for stocking. The areas of private waters are stocked privately. Given the fact that our weather warms or seems to warm more quickly now, it may be that we would be better off opening our waters earlier to general fishing. It certainly would give us more weeks to fish. In some really warm years, the Hendrickson hatch happens before the traditional opening day. I can see that happening if trends continue.


I understand all that and I am saying to relieve the pressures on TCA and WTS (which seems to be the goal), instead of opening up the waters for a select few, the proposal should be to open up the closed waters for ALL with the same C&R provision. This will make it fair to all anglers.(Do you have a link to a study that states pressure at TCA and WTS is a problem during this time? I'd like more background on this problem.) Just what percentage of anglers using TCA and WTS are club members that you hope to move to club waters? I cant believe that percentage is high, many more non-members than there are members.

Concerning the Hendrickson hatch, the F&W would never consider opening up the season just to fly fishing because of the outrage from non-FF anglers. I see the current proposal even more distasteful as it would give privileges to an even smaller group of people. Club waters are attached to F&W stocked waters, trout cannont read the signs posted on trees and hanging on wire. The current proposal is not fair to all anglers. If you want to fish during the Hendrickson hatch, do what the rest of us do, fish the TCA and WTS. If the earlier warming is a problem, then let’s change the season closure to be earlier. You see there are lots of alternative that is fair to all anglers.

To quote above:
As far as the "closed " season goes, it's less than a month DEAL with it, it's not that long. Besides there's enough special reg waters open that it's not like you can't fish at all.


In my opinion, no change is necessary, very rarely do I see anyone on a WTS. The general angling public doesn’t even know there is open water during the closed season. The proposed change only benefit a small percentage of anglers and IMO is solving a non-existing problem.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 3rd, 2017, 10:26 am
by Pete
The Royal Coachman wrote:
Drossi wrote:
Rusty Spinner wrote:
johnw wrote:Done


, check out NJFishing.com.



What a hack site. They have their panties in a wad over 3 treble hook stick baits. I wouldn't win many friends over there. :)


To exclude the stick baits was a bit of a head scratcher for me since it's not back up by science. Why include this? The amount of people fishing more than 3 hook points are a minority anyway. Why single them out? I was watching that thread on njfishing and nobody was able to defend that proposal. That's the only thing I have a problem with in the proposal.

Re: Stick baits (plugs)...
If you're not exclusively a flyfisher, you know that the "Rapala" and it's clones are especially effective.
They appropriate size for a given fish usually has the space between treble hooks perfect for one in the lip, and the other in the gills. If the fish struggles this is likely to happen. Removing the extra treble(s) doesn't require exceptional mechanical skills. If you can operate a spinning or casting reel, you can handle it.

When I see the mortality stats on single vs treble, I can't help but wonder if the treble stats were based on in-line spinners and spoons.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 3rd, 2017, 2:18 pm
by Paul N Skill
I just wish F&W hadn't included the treble hook ban and open waters for private clubs with the regs. proposed to protect our wild and native trout in the northwestern part of the state. I fear the end result may "throw out the baby with the bathwater".

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 4th, 2017, 9:51 am
by jaybird
Put in my comment last week after reading some strange stuff on another board , that made zero sense. Could care less about the clubs being open , will have zero effect on anything.Who cares.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 4th, 2017, 10:17 am
by Flyzlo
I sent my comments In a few week s ago, agree with the Brookie proposals and overall conservation plans. Opposition to clubs remaining open seems petty.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 6th, 2017, 10:05 am
by Rusty Spinner
I can tell by most of the replies that many of you only read the bullet points and not the reasoning behind them. Case in point is treble hooks. The Division was clear that this proposed regulation change is not based in science but rather in angler surveys of what anglers want to see changed in NJ trout regs. The Division has always mixed science with hunter and angler desires when it comes to our regulations.

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 6th, 2017, 6:42 pm
by BiggerThomas
Rusty Spinner wrote:I can tell by most of the replies that many of you only read the bullet points....


B-Man, no one reads anymore!

In an attempt at grand irony, I'm posting an article about the decline in reading but I doubt it'll draw many clicks :lol:

http://publiclibrariesonline.org/2017/0 ... -then-who/

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 6th, 2017, 11:46 pm
by Troutfishing4life
NJ fishing is full of BOOBS!!!!! They are all killem and grillems

Re: Proposed trout regs comments NEEDED today!

PostPosted: December 7th, 2017, 9:33 am
by Rusty Spinner
BiggerThomas wrote:
Rusty Spinner wrote:I can tell by most of the replies that many of you only read the bullet points....


B-Man, no one reads anymore!

In an attempt at grand irony, I'm posting an article about the decline in reading but I doubt it'll draw many clicks :lol:

http://publiclibrariesonline.org/2017/0 ... -then-who/


Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize for Literature? :lol:

So true, however. I grew up loving to read, but I find less and less time these days for it. But all is not lost, our daughter did not like to read when she was in elementary school. I worked hard to pick out some of the classics I knew she would enjoy reading, and now she reads a lot as she heads off to college next fall. I can only hope she keeps it up. As for me, I have 4 books I now own that I plan to read during the slow holiday season. Time to catch up!