Stocking

[robtf]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

[Drossi]

stock brooks, stock browns, stock all arounds.....or don't. NJ has opted for don't and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon.

Appreciate what you have, there may come a day when you don't

[cappy]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

I would not vote for Stocking Brookies, why mess with a native species. I would like to see brown trout stocked in waters that do not have a native population of Brookies.

[Rusty Spinner]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

I would not vote for Stocking Brookies, why mess with a native species. I would like to see brown trout stocked in waters that do not have a native population of Brookies.

And despite the false rumors to the contrary, that is right where the Division is when it comes to future stocking. Browns and bows, no brookies. But no browns in rivers like the Musky that have many native brook trout tributaries.

[Rusty Spinner]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

First of all, ask you yourself what "money play" the Division can gain. Once you recognize that money has zero to do with the current and future trout stocking situation, then you can accept the truth. And by "you", I don't mean you alone but all who keep questioning why the Division is making the decisions they are. There is loud talk about bringing back brown trout for streams, lakes and ponds where their stocking will not negatively impact our native brook trout which remain heavily imperiled in this state due mainly to our overdevelopment of our watersheds that once held nothing but brook trout. If and when they do, many will be upset by the waters they choose to stock browns in because it won't be "like the good old days". As for the money, it takes no more and no less to rear any of the three trout species once raised at Pequest. Most of the NJ Facebook trout pages are chock full of mouth breathers that have no idea what they are talking about. I get invited to those pages in an attempt to set the record straight by others only to recognize that many of these posters won't ever agree, so I leave those sites as a lost cause that they are.

[Rusty Spinner]

As for outsiders buying and stocking brook trout in NJ waters, that requires a Division issued stocking permit signed off on by the landowner(s) and approved by Division biologists responsible for those particular waters. I don't think there is much if any stocking from private hatcheries (legally) of brook trout here in NJ.

[Drossi]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

First of all, ask you yourself what "money play" the Division can gain. Once you recognize that money has zero to do with the current and future trout stocking situation, then you can accept the truth. And by "you", I don't mean you alone but all who keep questioning why the Division is making the decisions they are. There is loud talk about bringing back brown trout for streams, lakes and ponds where their stocking will not negatively impact our native brook trout which remain heavily imperiled in this state due mainly to our overdevelopment of our watersheds that once held nothing but brook trout. If and when they do, many will be upset by the waters they choose to stock browns in because it won't be "like the good old days". As for the money, it takes no more and no less to rear any of the three trout species once raised at Pequest. Most of the NJ Facebook trout pages are chock full of mouth breathers that have no idea what they are talking about. I get invited to those pages in an attempt to set the record straight by others only to recognize that many of these posters won't ever agree, so I leave those sites as a lost cause that they are.

Very true. It really burned my ass during one of the NJ DF&W trout stocking meetings when a "guide" complained that not stocking brookies and browns was hurting his business! So my trout stamp funds are supposed to prop up his business endeavor???

So they are going to start stocking browns over wild brown populations? I do like knowing that when I do catch a brown that it's possibly a wild fish but I'll take stocked browns back with open arms as well.

[Rusty Spinner]

Given the state official position of never stocking/rearing Brookies, is there any hope of changing this by petition or by getting Brookies stocked from somewhere else?

I know it’s probably hopeless, but I’m a bit pissed as I’ve heard through the FB grapevine that this is simply a money play.

Thoughts anyone?

Rob

First of all, ask you yourself what "money play" the Division can gain. Once you recognize that money has zero to do with the current and future trout stocking situation, then you can accept the truth. And by "you", I don't mean you alone but all who keep questioning why the Division is making the decisions they are. There is loud talk about bringing back brown trout for streams, lakes and ponds where their stocking will not negatively impact our native brook trout which remain heavily imperiled in this state due mainly to our overdevelopment of our watersheds that once held nothing but brook trout. If and when they do, many will be upset by the waters they choose to stock browns in because it won't be "like the good old days". As for the money, it takes no more and no less to rear any of the three trout species once raised at Pequest. Most of the NJ Facebook trout pages are chock full of mouth breathers that have no idea what they are talking about. I get invited to those pages in an attempt to set the record straight by others only to recognize that many of these posters won't ever agree, so I leave those sites as a lost cause that they are.

Very true. It really burned my ass during one of the NJ DF&W trout stocking meetings when a "guide" complained that not stocking brookies and browns was hurting his business! So my trout stamp funds are supposed to prop up his business endeavor???

So they are going to start stocking browns over wild brown populations? I do like knowing that when I do catch a brown that it's possibly a wild fish but I'll take stocked browns back with open arms as well.

Remember that many/most clubs stock and most stock both browns and rainbows these days. I'm sure some are sneaking in hatchery brookies as well. Not sure if they plan to stock hatchery browns over wild browns or not. But, like it or not, the hatchery rearing of fish and game is waning and hunters and anglers prefer wild fish and game over pen reared.

[robtf]

sorry, will get back to you with some of my thoughts on several of the posts. But one quick one: why brookies? Choose waters where they won't be over any native population. They do better in south jersey streams and still waters.
I like them better than bows. Browns would be ok, but the good ol char that we've been used to are more fun and held over well.

more later

Rob

[robtf]

As for outsiders buying and stocking brook trout in NJ waters, that requires a Division issued stocking permit signed off on by the landowner(s) and approved by Division biologists responsible for those particular waters. I don't think there is much if any stocking from private hatcheries (legally) of brook trout here in NJ.

I’m aware of the permit issues as I had discussions about this with mark boriek back in the day when a group I was part of was asking about stocking possibilities for a new waterway.

[Drossi]

But, like it or not, the hatchery rearing of fish and game is waning and hunters and anglers prefer wild fish and game over pen reared.

That very well may be true but with limited water that supports enough reproduction to sustain a quality fishery, especially in NJ, will beget limited opportunity. AND it won't take long for those waters to be privatized and/or exploited for profit.

I prefer wild fish but I don't prefer them to NO fish or pay to fish.

[robtf]

First of all, ask you yourself what "money play" the Division can gain. Once you recognize that money has zero to do with the current and future trout stocking situation, then you can accept the truth. And by "you", I don't mean you alone but all who keep questioning why the Division is making the decisions they are. There is loud talk about bringing back brown trout for streams, lakes and ponds where their stocking will not negatively impact our native brook trout which remain heavily imperiled in this state due mainly to our overdevelopment of our watersheds that once held nothing but brook trout. If and when they do, many will be upset by the waters they choose to stock browns in because it won't be "like the good old days". As for the money, it takes no more and no less to rear any of the three trout species once raised at Pequest. Most of the NJ Facebook trout pages are chock full of mouth breathers that have no idea what they are talking about. I get invited to those pages in an attempt to set the record straight by others only to recognize that many of these posters won't ever agree, so I leave those sites as a lost cause that they are.

Very true. It really burned my ass during one of the NJ DF&W trout stocking meetings when a "guide" complained that not stocking brookies and browns was hurting his business! So my trout stamp funds are supposed to prop up his business endeavor???

So they are going to start stocking browns over wild brown populations? I do like knowing that when I do catch a brown that it's possibly a wild fish but I'll take stocked browns back with open arms as well.

Remember that many/most clubs stock and most stock both browns and rainbows these days. I'm sure some are sneaking in hatchery brookies as well. Not sure if they plan to stock hatchery browns over wild browns or not. But, like it or not, the hatchery rearing of fish and game is waning and hunters and anglers prefer wild fish and game over pen reared.

Down here in south jersey, and I’d include Monmouth county, there are no wild anything. IME the bows are the least popular of the 3. I guess browns would be ok but my fav in the Monmouth county streams where I used to roam a lot, brookies were the normal fish stocked and for good reason. They survived the tannic waters better ( did I write that already somewhere?) and found the hidey holes where they would hang out, if possible they would spread up and down from the stocking points more. Bob S’s adage was “brookies go up, browns go down, and rainbows go round and round”… basically true. I guess in streams with wild populations, the adapted “wild” fish would be more popular but not in semi holdover and put and take places… in my opinion and experience ( only ).

On the Toms during an electro survey, and I’m guessing it was mid-summer but I’d have to search back… it was not spring…interestingly I don’t recall many trout in the special regs area but we did pull up a big brown ( if I recall somewhere 16” or so +/- it was a while ago). But even there Brookies would last the longest, or at least be more catchable on that stream, than the other two ( guess you’d need to live line small sunnies to get a big brown late in the season LOL )

[robtf]

First of all, ask you yourself what "money play" the Division can gain. Once you recognize that money has zero to do with the current and future trout stocking situation, then you can accept the truth. And by "you", I don't mean you alone but all who keep questioning why the Division is making the decisions they are. There is loud talk about bringing back brown trout for streams, lakes and ponds where their stocking will not negatively impact our native brook trout which remain heavily imperiled in this state due mainly to our overdevelopment of our watersheds that once held nothing but brook trout. If and when they do, many will be upset by the waters they choose to stock browns in because it won't be "like the good old days". As for the money, it takes no more and no less to rear any of the three trout species once raised at Pequest. Most of the NJ Facebook trout pages are chock full of mouth breathers that have no idea what they are talking about. I get invited to those pages in an attempt to set the record straight by others only to recognize that many of these posters won't ever agree, so I leave those sites as a lost cause that they are.

Very true. It really burned my ass during one of the NJ DF&W trout stocking meetings when a "guide" complained that not stocking brookies and browns was hurting his business! So my trout stamp funds are supposed to prop up his business endeavor???

So they are going to start stocking browns over wild brown populations? I do like knowing that when I do catch a brown that it's possibly a wild fish but I'll take stocked browns back with open arms as well.

Remember that many/most clubs stock and most stock both browns and rainbows these days. I'm sure some are sneaking in hatchery brookies as well. Not sure if they plan to stock hatchery browns over wild browns or not. But, like it or not, the hatchery rearing of fish and game is waning and hunters and anglers prefer wild fish and game over pen reared.

I’m currently reading Nick Karas’ “Brook Trout” and thought of your comment while now in Chapter 7, where he gives the early history of pisciculture by Seth Green. Mr Karas shares how while initially thought of as saviors, fish culturists were later (and today) looked at as the bane of wild brook trout populations, along with describing all the problems with “domesticated” brook trout

Ah, well, as I’ve outlined, they never bothered me in my jersey shore streams. But I can understand the concern for protecting our wild populations here in NJ.

[Rusty Spinner]

Very true. It really burned my ass during one of the NJ DF&W trout stocking meetings when a "guide" complained that not stocking brookies and browns was hurting his business! So my trout stamp funds are supposed to prop up his business endeavor???

So they are going to start stocking browns over wild brown populations? I do like knowing that when I do catch a brown that it's possibly a wild fish but I'll take stocked browns back with open arms as well.

Remember that many/most clubs stock and most stock both browns and rainbows these days. I'm sure some are sneaking in hatchery brookies as well. Not sure if they plan to stock hatchery browns over wild browns or not. But, like it or not, the hatchery rearing of fish and game is waning and hunters and anglers prefer wild fish and game over pen reared.

I’m currently reading Nick Karas’ “Brook Trout” and thought of your comment while now in Chapter 7, where he gives the early history of pisciculture by Seth Green. Mr Karas shares how while initially thought of as saviors, fish culturists were later (and today) looked at as the bane of wild brook trout populations, along with describing all the problems with “domesticated” brook trout

Ah, well, as I’ve outlined, they never bothered me in my jersey shore streams. But I can understand the concern for protecting our wild populations here in NJ.

Stocking of fish, far more so than game like pheasants, has had an enormous negative impact on native fisheries for both game and non-game species alike. The brook trout Pequest used to raise, for example, came from the USFWS's Nashua, NH hatchery. They were reared to grow fast and grow large. Many here will remember the "Frankenbrookies" they would stock each fall with eggs pouring out of the females as they were stocked. They are not in any way the same as our "heritage" brook trout which remain in our rivers since the receding of the Wisconsin Glacier some 10-15,000 years ago.

[robtf]

True there is negative impact. But given the differences and lack of ability for the hatchery fish to compete with wild populations, has it been quantified? I mean how much gain would there be (if any) to restart a hatchery process with something close to our heritage strain eggs? Even given some of the sacrifices to the process that might entail? Is it possible? Don’t answer whether it’s “worth” it.

Again, my focus is on improving the south jersey trout experience. But if the answer remains no then I would fall back to browns. And pare back the amount of bows stocked, while catchable, they don’t do as well anywhere down here as the brooks or browns did. In my opinion.

[Rusty Spinner]

True there is negative impact. But given the differences and lack of ability for the hatchery fish to compete with wild populations, has it been quantified? I mean how much gain would there be (if any) to restart a hatchery process with something close to our heritage strain eggs? Even given some of the sacrifices to the process that might entail? Is it possible? Don’t answer whether it’s “worth” it.

Again, my focus is on improving the south jersey trout experience. But if the answer remains no then I would fall back to browns. And pare back the amount of bows stocked, while catchable, they don’t do as well anywhere down here as the brooks or browns did. In my opinion.

Hatcheries are never a good way to re-establish fish populations. They are purely designed for put and take to keep anglers happy. The average NJ angler that pays for a license and trout stamp wouldn't be happy with 7"-9" heritage strain brook trout stocked into our rivers, ponds and lakes. As far as stocking non trout producing waters, I have no issues if it isn't impacting another species of fish that are native to that waterbody.