Fly fishing etiquette rant

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dbarr15
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Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by dbarr15 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:30 pm

I can't take it. Arrived at the river today to find two anglers standing in the water in the lanes that two days ago I pulled out a few fish. I doubt they worked the lanes before stepping in but it just ruined that stretch of water. I move up stream to a secluded section and was doing nicely by myself. Another two angles walked past me up river and both stepped right into the water again standing in the spots where I have been successful in catching trout. To make matters worst they proceeded to work their way downstream in the water toward me. Needless to say, the bite was over for that stretch of water. Sort of ruined my day.

Why do people stand in the water they should be fishing?
Why can't people be more considerate?
These were not NEW-BE fishermen and should have known better!

SRT
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by SRT » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:31 am

In your first circumstance, well you can't fix stupid. I hope they fished their way up to the "lanes" that fish are located in, but this isn't a etiquette problem as much as it is a learning problem. Plus they were on the water prior to you, so they have the right to fish the water, even if done wrong.

In the second circumstance... this drives me nuts. I would never approach another fisherman and the water he is fishing if I would impact him in any way shape or form. The largest part of our interaction would be exchanging pleasantries and me asking them what their plan was in fishing the river so that I can develop my own plan which does not conflict with theirs, up to and including me leaving the spot to the other fisherman.


We live in a crowded state, and have limited natural resources. Planning to share these resources is a reality of where we live and recreate. I try and not let bad behaviors harsh my mellow. I am not always successful.

A few years ago i was fishing a small WTS, and conditions should have made for a great fishing day. Temperatures and flows were spot on, lots of bug activity etc. But alas there was no success in fishing. After about an hour of scratching my head and changing flies techniques etc I saw a group of young men and woman walking down the center of the stream, not fishing, but just walking. I asked them if they had walked up stream earlier, in which they confirmed they did. Well that answered my question on why the fishing wasn't any good. The group was very apologetic about "ruining my fishing". My response is no apology needed. They were lawfully enjoying a shared natural resource that I have no claims of exclusivity for. I am glad they were out there enjoying it, and hope they grow into advocates for the stream. I asked them how far up they went, and proceeded to walk up beyond that point, where the fishing was to my expectations.

I guess the moral of the story is, always have a Plan B, and be ready to execute on it.

barkeater
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by barkeater » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:27 am

Every time I fish a certain stretch of the Willowemoc I have the same problem. I usually get there early as there is a consistent take of BWO in the morning and work my way up a run. Invariably somebody will show up and stand in the run which is knee deep and on the edge of the river and cast to the middle which is ankle deep and doesn't hold fish. When this happens, it is time to pick up. I don't tell them they just blew mine and their fishing as maybe they wont come back.
Another peev I have is strangers coming up to me unasked and telling me how many fish they've caught this year usually with a mop fly or whooley bugger. Guys, I don't care. I catch plenty of fish and don't need to be interrupted to hear your fishing history. Incidentally this tends to happen on the KLG and not much elsewhere.

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:06 pm

SRT wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:31 am
In your first circumstance, well you can't fix stupid. I hope they fished their way up to the "lanes" that fish are located in, but this isn't a etiquette problem as much as it is a learning problem. Plus they were on the water prior to you, so they have the right to fish the water, even if done wrong.

In the second circumstance... this drives me nuts. I would never approach another fisherman and the water he is fishing if I would impact him in any way shape or form. The largest part of our interaction would be exchanging pleasantries and me asking them what their plan was in fishing the river so that I can develop my own plan which does not conflict with theirs, up to and including me leaving the spot to the other fisherman.


We live in a crowded state, and have limited natural resources. Planning to share these resources is a reality of where we live and recreate. I try and not let bad behaviors harsh my mellow. I am not always successful.


I guess the moral of the story is, always have a Plan B, and be ready to execute on it.
Very well said, SRT.

I see this both while fishing and guiding far more often than you can imagine. It amazes me how few anglers know where the fish will be during the year which changes with the water temps. Two years ago I had a relative newbie client that wanted to learn to fish the KLG. So my plan was to cover a ton of water, showing him all the prime lies as well as the "B" water. We came to one famous pool and there was a guy standing exactly where the fish are. I whispered to my client that he was seeing something that he could learn from and I told him I suspected this angler wasn't catching anything. Sure enough, I politely asked how the guy was doing as we walked past on the road and was told, "not good, I'm not catching a thing!". We continued to fish downstream and on our way back, I ran into a friend and fellow guide fishing that same water himself, but standing in the right place. I asked him how he was doing and he said, "got 13 so far out of this hole". He was there for 20 minutes....
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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BiggerThomas
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by BiggerThomas » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:32 pm

dbarr15 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:30 pm
Why can't people be more considerate?
JERZY

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lightenup
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by lightenup » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:25 pm

i usually don't have this problem, I look scary i guess, but a buddy of mine, you know who you are, has guys practically jumping in his waders everytime we fish. I don't know how he doesn't beat a jackass, as he could, but calmness and a few choice words usually rule the day.

BillSmith
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by BillSmith » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:10 pm

Fish bigger rivers.
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Bubba Zinetti
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Bubba Zinetti » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:42 am

BiggerThomas wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:32 pm
dbarr15 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:30 pm
Why can't people be more considerate?
JERZY
Unfortunately this is not limited to NJ. We spent 2 weeks in Colorado in September and we witnessed all manner of really bad behavior. Cool story time. I had a good laugh when we were finishing out our day on the Big Thompson in Moraine Park (RMNP).. Somr older (than me) men were sitting at a table in the parking lot. I went up to them to ask how far up they fished, they told me, then I asked what they were using. In unison they replied "size 12 adams". We all had a chuckle. Size 16 elk hair caddis and BWO's were what we had been using in the area, and they worked very well.

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Rusty Spinner » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:19 am

Bubba Zinetti wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:42 am
BiggerThomas wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:32 pm
dbarr15 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:30 pm
Why can't people be more considerate?
JERZY
Unfortunately this is not limited to NJ. We spent 2 weeks in Colorado in September and we witnessed all manner of really bad behavior. Cool story time. I had a good laugh when we were finishing out our day on the Big Thompson in Moraine Park (RMNP).. Somr older (than me) men were sitting at a table in the parking lot. I went up to them to ask how far up they fished, they told me, then I asked what they were using. In unison they replied "size 12 adams". We all had a chuckle. Size 16 elk hair caddis and BWO's were what we had been using in the area, and they worked very well.
Agreed, many states see this exact same problem. Alaska comes to mind as maybe the biggest sh*t show on the planet when salmon run. NY's Salmon River comes to mind as do many other rivers in other states. NJ has no corner on that market!
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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lightenup
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by lightenup » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 pm

Big Horn river Montana, 5 of us were fishing a large seam and doing well. Two drift boats with guides and clients float down the seam and land, they decide to wade into the seam and start yelling at us about how it was their river and spot. One of our party proceeded to catch a BIG rainbow at their feet and laugh hardily. They didn't like this and decided to take it out on the oldest most frail member of our party. They told him to move it and started slapping line on the water all around him and up and down the seam. Us being the calm, cool and collected bunch we are decided against an argument and surely an ensuing fight, moved off the seam and up river a bit and still caught fish..All I can say is, what a bag of dicks....showing clients how to be immature ass-lickers and fish over people and chase them off. It happens everywhere! The Madison river, Raynolds Pass, the big bend, my buddy I spoke of before was fishing there and a guy literally walked in 5 feet away, it was fall and the river was empty..that wasn't a whole bag of dicks, just one large prick!!!

Johnw
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Johnw » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:11 pm

I would think or ,at least hope, that the guides would lose their licenses for allowing that kind of behavior.

Jaybird
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Jaybird » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:28 pm

lightenup wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 pm
Big Horn river Montana, 5 of us were fishing a large seam and doing well. Two drift boats with guides and clients float down the seam and land, they decide to wade into the seam and start yelling at us about how it was their river and spot. One of our party proceeded to catch a BIG rainbow at their feet and laugh hardily. They didn't like this and decided to take it out on the oldest most frail member of our party. They told him to move it and started slapping line on the water all around him and up and down the seam. Us being the calm, cool and collected bunch we are decided against an argument and surely an ensuing fight, moved off the seam and up river a bit and still caught fish..All I can say is, what a bag of dicks....showing clients how to be immature ass-lickers and fish over people and chase them off. It happens everywhere!
. I think that is pretty common on the Big Horn , you never know where these guides are booked from . The client may have tried to save a few bucks and ended up hiring college Bro's who guide 6 weeks during the summer keeping a Miller Lite buzz the entire time , this pretty common. That said there are also exceptional guides on the bighorn that's a fact , there are alot of variables , but the bighorn being packed with dudes is just the nature of the beast......I'd like to be there now though .

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lightenup
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by lightenup » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:34 pm

Jaybird wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:28 pm
lightenup wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 pm
Big Horn river Montana, 5 of us were fishing a large seam and doing well. Two drift boats with guides and clients float down the seam and land, they decide to wade into the seam and start yelling at us about how it was their river and spot. One of our party proceeded to catch a BIG rainbow at their feet and laugh hardily. They didn't like this and decided to take it out on the oldest most frail member of our party. They told him to move it and started slapping line on the water all around him and up and down the seam. Us being the calm, cool and collected bunch we are decided against an argument and surely an ensuing fight, moved off the seam and up river a bit and still caught fish..All I can say is, what a bag of dicks....showing clients how to be immature ass-lickers and fish over people and chase them off. It happens everywhere!
. I think that is pretty common on the Big Horn , you never know where these guides are booked from . The client may have tried to save a few bucks and ended up hiring college Bro's who guide 6 weeks during the summer keeping a Miller Lite buzz the entire time , this pretty common. That said there are also exceptional guides on the bighorn that's a fact , there are alot of variables , but the bighorn being packed with dudes is just the nature of the beast......I'd like to be there now though .
I have forgotten the name of the shop, but it is one of the two located by the dam, in the little "town"...we will never spend money there again!!! Yes, I wish it was an early evening fishing the black caddis hatch, wading the flats as well, but I'll take the Madison first any day!!!! ;)
I have never fished with a guide, just knowledgeable friends, I think maybe it's time.....

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coaltrout
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by coaltrout » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:22 pm

That's the trade-off in fishing popular waters that have lots of fish for you to catch;
there's probably others thinking the same as you. And typically, even if they have good
etiquette, the traffic around still affects your fishing.

I prefer focusing on less-popular spots. Some rivers that arent fall stocked also have plenty of trout to
fish for. Also focusing on non-stocked sections + access points that are way obscure are a favorite of mine.

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BiggerThomas
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by BiggerThomas » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:19 pm

I bet all the hoi polloi you've encountered on streams outside of NJ were there visiting from NJ :lol:

Bubba Zinetti
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Bubba Zinetti » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:17 am

As a follow up and perhaps a change of the discussion, this is why my wife and I have taken to fishing smaller waters, and taking longer hikes to the water. We also like to fish less popular water. We fished Granite creek one year (outside of Jackson) and caught our fill of large cutts. We saw one other person on the river, and they were just having a picnic, not fishing. So we had to drive up a bumpy dirt road, and hike 15 minutes (15 minutes, can you believe that!) to fish. The fishing was great, and the scenery wasn't bad either.

If you can, please walk 15 20 minutes away from where you parked. You will most likely find undisturbed water.

garden hackle
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by garden hackle » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:28 pm

Bubba Zinetti wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:17 am
As a follow up and perhaps a change of the discussion, this is why my wife and I have taken to fishing smaller waters, and taking longer hikes to the water. We also like to fish less popular water. We fished Granite creek one year (outside of Jackson) and caught our fill of large cutts. We saw one other person on the river, and they were just having a picnic, not fishing. So we had to drive up a bumpy dirt road, and hike 15 minutes (15 minutes, can you believe that!) to fish. The fishing was great, and the scenery wasn't bad either.

If you can, please walk 15 20 minutes away from where you parked. You will most likely find undisturbed water.
Fishing smaller waters or walking 15 minutes is almost like cheating.

For some people it is about numbers, the “hero” photograph and bragging rights. In my office I have a picture of a 3 inch wild brook trout caught in a 3 foot wide VT stream. Pound for pound, one feisty trout, jumping 4 times before bringing it to hand (no net required). So, I am not immune to the occasional hero shot to remember that trip.

Jaybird
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by Jaybird » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:41 pm

Well wait ,that's not how Flyfishng works anymore ..... How do you expect to become a social media influncer , and get free swag from companies , like a brand new,......... wait for it ........ "hat" if your not hash tagging your hero shots ??? I think you guys got it a bit backwards .

joe_panella
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by joe_panella » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:17 am

Jaybird wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:28 pm
lightenup wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 pm
Big Horn river Montana, 5 of us were fishing a large seam and doing well. Two drift boats with guides and clients float down the seam and land, they decide to wade into the seam and start yelling at us about how it was their river and spot. One of our party proceeded to catch a BIG rainbow at their feet and laugh hardily. They didn't like this and decided to take it out on the oldest most frail member of our party. They told him to move it and started slapping line on the water all around him and up and down the seam. Us being the calm, cool and collected bunch we are decided against an argument and surely an ensuing fight, moved off the seam and up river a bit and still caught fish..All I can say is, what a bag of dicks....showing clients how to be immature ass-lickers and fish over people and chase them off. It happens everywhere!
. I think that is pretty common on the Big Horn , you never know where these guides are booked from . The client may have tried to save a few bucks and ended up hiring college Bro's who guide 6 weeks during the summer keeping a Miller Lite buzz the entire time , this pretty common. That said there are also exceptional guides on the bighorn that's a fact , there are alot of variables , but the bighorn being packed with dudes is just the nature of the beast......I'd like to be there now though .
I have fished the Bighorn for two separate weeks going back almost 20 years. It gets packed, yet still not hard to find open water. The fish just below the dam get pounded, the lower half has about half the fish and 5% of the anglers. i don't know if things have changed, but i doubt it. I have read the numbers have been down but i don't think fishing is why, it seems to have to do with the common issue of fish being last in line in terms of priority when they talk about water releases.

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lightenup
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Re: Fly fishing etiquette rant

Post by lightenup » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:25 pm

joe_panella wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:17 am
Jaybird wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:28 pm
lightenup wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 pm
Big Horn river Montana, 5 of us were fishing a large seam and doing well. Two drift boats with guides and clients float down the seam and land, they decide to wade into the seam and start yelling at us about how it was their river and spot. One of our party proceeded to catch a BIG rainbow at their feet and laugh hardily. They didn't like this and decided to take it out on the oldest most frail member of our party. They told him to move it and started slapping line on the water all around him and up and down the seam. Us being the calm, cool and collected bunch we are decided against an argument and surely an ensuing fight, moved off the seam and up river a bit and still caught fish..All I can say is, what a bag of dicks....showing clients how to be immature ass-lickers and fish over people and chase them off. It happens everywhere!
. I think that is pretty common on the Big Horn , you never know where these guides are booked from . The client may have tried to save a few bucks and ended up hiring college Bro's who guide 6 weeks during the summer keeping a Miller Lite buzz the entire time , this pretty common. That said there are also exceptional guides on the bighorn that's a fact , there are alot of variables , but the bighorn being packed with dudes is just the nature of the beast......I'd like to be there now though .
I have fished the Bighorn for two separate weeks going back almost 20 years. It gets packed, yet still not hard to find open water. The fish just below the dam get pounded, the lower half has about half the fish and 5% of the anglers. i don't know if things have changed, but i doubt it. I have read the numbers have been down but i don't think fishing is why, it seems to have to do with the common issue of fish being last in line in terms of priority when they talk about water releases.
The bighorn 2 years ago,when we were there was not fishing well past 3 mile access, we floated past it one day, not listening to the advice of the locals, and didn't catch diddly, so I guess it was everyone fishing packed into three miles of active fish. That being said, you don''t have to be a dick if the spot you want to fish is momentarily occupied. Yes, there is still a lot of space to fish, so if I see a spot I want to fish occupied, I move along with no problems and find a spot all my own, just like we did when the assholes came along. The Madison is different, there are still assholes, but the river is easier to access wading, so you can move about without hopping in and out of a boat. If a dick come s along, walk a few hundred feet away and catch fish.

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