WTS 1/30

All about trout fishing in the great Garden State!
User avatar
njcatchrelease
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:36 pm
Location: Northern NJ
Contact:

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by njcatchrelease » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:30 pm

I know that it seems like there are more and more herons around. You used to see an occasionally one while fishing the WTS now it seems like you see a few on every stream. These guys must also be contributing to the decline in trout.
Tight Lines

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:12 pm

We had a NINE year drought or borderline drought. I'm unsure why so many seem perplexed at the significant decrease in wild trout over that time. Predation obviously is amplified during low flow years. That trend is mostly gone the last two years. There is nothing here to worry about, it's just the normal ebb and flow of nature's cycles. Look at Rhinehart Brook where Shawn and his crew diligently removed over 1,500 non-native brown trout and within two spawning years, native brookies went from less than 50 fish to over 450 fish. Browns are more and more taking out our native brookies, and as they do, we will see fewer but larger browns.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
NJAngler
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by NJAngler » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:24 pm

njcatchrelease wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:30 pm
I know that it seems like there are more and more herons around. You used to see an occasionally one while fishing the WTS now it seems like you see a few on every stream. These guys must also be contributing to the decline in trout.
I would add Mergansers as they are very clever hunters and more skilled anglers. I have seen them on some very small streams working in flocks, diving down and pulling out trout from their safety spots under rocks. If they "work" a stream for a few days, they can do some considerable damage. Shoot them please.

martalus
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:39 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by martalus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm

Birds could do real number on a stream, but I don't see how they could lead to a wholesale collapse like the one you mentioned in NE NJ (the Q?)

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Rusty Spinner » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:49 am

martalus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm
Birds could do real number on a stream, but I don't see how they could lead to a wholesale collapse like the one you mentioned in NE NJ (the Q?)
Correct. Biology 101 tells us that predator numbers flex up and down based on the availability of prey. They cannot by design wipe out their own food source. Their own numbers will crash when their food lessens and the cycle begins again. I'm sure birds and water temps are taking some toll. But you need to have good spawning conditions and habitat for successful reproduction. When flows are at or near historic lows, they cannot access much of their better spawning habitat which often lies in smaller tribs, the young of year (YOY) face more predation with low water as they lack juvenile habitat and are forced to live among adult trout which also prey on YOY, and then when you add a full 9 years of lousy flows during the critical spawning season, we find ourselves digging out of a hole. But that trend seems to be reversing now....
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
NJAngler
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by NJAngler » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:30 am

martalus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm
Birds could do real number on a stream, but I don't see how they could lead to a wholesale collapse like the one you mentioned in NE NJ (the Q?)
No not there. Most I have seen in Warren/Hunterdon streams. Tribs to larger rivers like Delaware, SBRR, Paulinskill and Musky as well as tribs to our reservoirs. For one species to vanish and and #'s of species like chubs, shiners and panfish to stay about the same suggests disease, an excessive thermal event or someone using a panther martin spinner and catching them all. lol. It is rare but there have been streams over in the poconos that were historically Class "A" with trout numbers in the 1500-3000 trout per mile range that currently support almost no wild trout. Beautiful Mud Run in Hickory Run St Park is one of them. Absolutely gorgeous looking stream in a steep gorge and cold water year round. Lots of insect life and deep pools/riffles. Nearly every trib has wild trout. It does occasionally have pH issues(~5) but otherwise I see reason why there aren't more wild trout.

garden hackle
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by garden hackle » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:33 am

NJAngler wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:30 am
martalus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm
Birds could do real number on a stream, but I don't see how they could lead to a wholesale collapse like the one you mentioned in NE NJ (the Q?)
No not there. Most I have seen in Warren/Hunterdon streams. Tribs to larger rivers like Delaware, SBRR, Paulinskill and Musky as well as tribs to our reservoirs. For one species to vanish and and #'s of species like chubs, shiners and panfish to stay about the same suggests disease, an excessive thermal event or someone using a panther martin spinner and catching them all. lol. It is rare but there have been streams over in the poconos that were historically Class "A" with trout numbers in the 1500-3000 trout per mile range that currently support almost no wild trout. Beautiful Mud Run in Hickory Run St Park is one of them. Absolutely gorgeous looking stream in a steep gorge and cold water year round. Lots of insect life and deep pools/riffles. Nearly every trib has wild trout. It does occasionally have pH issues(~5) but otherwise I see reason why there aren't more wild trout.
Loss of suitable spawning habitat or trout magnets are other possibility for one species to vanish besides disease and panther martins. Thermal events is related to spawning as is numerous low water years.

User avatar
Twism86
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:31 pm
Location: Basking Ridge, NJ
Contact:

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Twism86 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:40 am

garden hackle wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:33 am
NJAngler wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:30 am
martalus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm
Birds could do real number on a stream, but I don't see how they could lead to a wholesale collapse like the one you mentioned in NE NJ (the Q?)
No not there. Most I have seen in Warren/Hunterdon streams. Tribs to larger rivers like Delaware, SBRR, Paulinskill and Musky as well as tribs to our reservoirs. For one species to vanish and and #'s of species like chubs, shiners and panfish to stay about the same suggests disease, an excessive thermal event or someone using a panther martin spinner and catching them all. lol. It is rare but there have been streams over in the poconos that were historically Class "A" with trout numbers in the 1500-3000 trout per mile range that currently support almost no wild trout. Beautiful Mud Run in Hickory Run St Park is one of them. Absolutely gorgeous looking stream in a steep gorge and cold water year round. Lots of insect life and deep pools/riffles. Nearly every trib has wild trout. It does occasionally have pH issues(~5) but otherwise I see reason why there aren't more wild trout.
Loss of suitable spawning habitat or trout magnets are other possibility for one species to vanish besides disease and panther martins. Thermal events is related to spawning as is numerous low water years.
I feel targeted.........
"Stupidity is scary but genius can be frightening.
Genius built the atom bomb. Genius topples nations."

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by coaltrout » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am

Twism86 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:40 am
garden hackle wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:33 am
NJAngler wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:30 am


No not there. Most I have seen in Warren/Hunterdon streams. Tribs to larger rivers like Delaware, SBRR, Paulinskill and Musky as well as tribs to our reservoirs. For one species to vanish and and #'s of species like chubs, shiners and panfish to stay about the same suggests disease, an excessive thermal event or someone using a panther martin spinner and catching them all. lol. It is rare but there have been streams over in the poconos that were historically Class "A" with trout numbers in the 1500-3000 trout per mile range that currently support almost no wild trout. Beautiful Mud Run in Hickory Run St Park is one of them. Absolutely gorgeous looking stream in a steep gorge and cold water year round. Lots of insect life and deep pools/riffles. Nearly every trib has wild trout. It does occasionally have pH issues(~5) but otherwise I see reason why there aren't more wild trout.
Loss of suitable spawning habitat or trout magnets are other possibility for one species to vanish besides disease and panther martins. Thermal events is related to spawning as is numerous low water years.
I feel targeted.........
didnt you know, once a trout touches a soft plastic or a spinner blade, they instantly blow up. :mrgreen: Therefore I use marabou jigs, they only explode 33% of the time :geek:

User avatar
Twism86
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:31 pm
Location: Basking Ridge, NJ
Contact:

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Twism86 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:33 am

coaltrout wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am
Twism86 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:40 am
garden hackle wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:33 am


Loss of suitable spawning habitat or trout magnets are other possibility for one species to vanish besides disease and panther martins. Thermal events is related to spawning as is numerous low water years.
I feel targeted.........
didnt you know, once a trout touches a soft plastic or a spinner blade, they instantly blow up. :mrgreen: Therefore I use marabou jigs, they only explode 33% of the time :geek:
Where is the fun in that?!

Back to the main topic, I think the improved water levels we are seeing recently will help trout numbers.
"Stupidity is scary but genius can be frightening.
Genius built the atom bomb. Genius topples nations."

Troutman
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Troutman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:34 pm

Twism86 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:33 am
coaltrout wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am
Twism86 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:40 am


I feel targeted.........
didnt you know, once a trout touches a soft plastic or a spinner blade, they instantly blow up. :mrgreen: Therefore I use marabou jigs, they only explode 33% of the time :geek:
Where is the fun in that?!

Back to the main topic, I think the improved water levels we are seeing recently will help trout numbers.
99% of these fly dudes wouldnt know what do if they bought in a 24 inch all wild brown like this. Oh I forget they never will because after a certain size most will no longer feed on flies they only feed on other smaller bait fish & crustaceans
Image
Was known as Troutman1

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by coaltrout » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:30 pm

nice brown, i exclusively spin fish nowadays, but ive seen some big browns come off of tiny nymphs also big streamers are infamous for big trout. Same goes for many fish species.

I wonder what lure you were using in the pic, no fun when you censor it :mrgreen: Im guessing a plug or a spinner due to size? Got a secret rapala color? :mrgreen: (we all do)
I love jigs (plastics and marabou)

garden hackle
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by garden hackle » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:03 pm

Spin fishing is like cheating

garden hackle
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:50 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by garden hackle » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:03 pm

coaltrout wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am
Twism86 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:40 am
garden hackle wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:33 am


Loss of suitable spawning habitat or trout magnets are other possibility for one species to vanish besides disease and panther martins. Thermal events is related to spawning as is numerous low water years.
I feel targeted.........
didnt you know, once a trout touches a soft plastic or a spinner blade, they instantly blow up. :mrgreen: Therefore I use marabou jigs, they only explode 33% of the time :geek:
The spinning blade on a panther martin causes cancer

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by coaltrout » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:37 pm

garden hackle wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:03 pm

The spinning blade on a panther martin causes cancer
ah yes, luckily I stay clear of the carcinogen-blade and use lead jigs and toxic-plastic lures. :mrgreen:

Troutman
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Troutman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 pm

coaltrout wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:30 pm
nice brown, i exclusively spin fish nowadays, but ive seen some big browns come off of tiny nymphs also big streamers are infamous for big trout. Same goes for many fish species.

I wonder what lure you were using in the pic, no fun when you censor it :mrgreen: Im guessing a plug or a spinner due to size? Got a secret rapala color? :mrgreen: (we all do)
I love jigs (plastics and marabou)
Its actually just a gold color plug. It was a pictured I had loaded up on Imgur with that censored for respect for a angler that had introduced that to me & didnt want his lure blown up on the internet on another site. No secrets here since most here fly fish. As you can see. I use single barbless hook. NO TREBLES ;)
Image
Was known as Troutman1

Troutman
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Troutman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:15 pm

garden hackle wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:03 pm
Spin fishing is like cheating
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . Like fly fishing isnt :roll: :lol: . flies are what trout are genetically programmed to eat :lol: :lol: :P
Was known as Troutman1

rollcast
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:21 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by rollcast » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:46 am

Troutman wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:34 pm

99% of these fly dudes wouldnt know what do if they bought in a 24 inch all wild brown like this. Oh I forget they never will because after a certain size most will no longer feed on flies they only feed on other smaller bait fish & crustaceans
Dude. Caught on a 16 caddis dry. In the dark.
Attachments
IMGP1346.JPG
IMGP1346.JPG (33.15 KiB) Viewed 251 times

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by coaltrout » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:53 am

Troutman wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 pm

Its actually just a gold color plug. It was a pictured I had loaded up on Imgur with that censored for respect for a angler that had introduced that to me & didnt want his lure blown up on the internet on another site. No secrets here since most here fly fish. As you can see. I use single barbless hook. NO TREBLES ;)
Thanks for sharing. Gold is a good color, i see so many different favorite colors that i just think they all work lol. The single hooks are good too, wish more manufacturers made em. For now just gotta replace em myself.

Jaybird
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:23 am

Re: WTS 1/30

Post by Jaybird » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:38 am

Just a word on what flies .... Go look at the pictures of lahonton cutthroat throat on njfishing, those fish are like 10lbs , and what do they eat ? Flies .... You can catch a sailfish on flies .... To say a 24in brown wont eat flies ......well there are many reading this message board who can prove the opposite.

Post Reply