Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

All about trout fishing in the great Garden State!
robtf
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by robtf » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:55 pm

Don't know either the little J nor really the Musky all that well, but every river has a carrying capacity that limits how many fish it can sustain.
The advantage of fingerlings is just that you can stock so many, however, the river conditions still have to support their ability to survive
to adulthood. At least predation is limited (compared to fingerlings) when stocking larger trout, and they still have to hold over and be able to reproduce.

Just my ignorant thoughts.

Carry on.
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living in the land of clammies

Johnw
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Johnw » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:52 pm

About 10 years ago the State stocked 10's of thousands of fingerling brookies at several bridges below the Toms River TCA and continued to do so for several years. Within a weeks time some of those fish made their up to the TCA and were caught for a couple of weeks and pretty much disappeared and there was no evidence that I am aware of that these fish stayed around to grow to larger size. These fish were stocked in an effort to establish a sea runof brookies and whether they actually made their way to the salt and eaten by bluefish or stripers etc is anybody!s guess but not aware of any that survived.

joe_panella
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by joe_panella » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:52 pm

robtf wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:55 pm
Don't know either the little J nor really the Musky all that well, but every river has a carrying capacity that limits how many fish it can sustain.
The advantage of fingerlings is just that you can stock so many, however, the river conditions still have to support their ability to survive
to adulthood. At least predation is limited (compared to fingerlings) when stocking larger trout, and they still have to hold over and be able to reproduce.

Just my ignorant thoughts.

Carry on.
The musky is a big river especially in the lower stretches and cold. They stocked surplus rainbows years ago and the next year they fought like wild fish. Rainbows don't reproduce well in jersey except for a few streams. If you have fished rivers that exclusively stock fingerlings the fishery is much different than one that has stocked adults. Fingerling stocked rivers produce fish that fight like wild fish and act like wild fish.

joe_panella
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by joe_panella » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:55 pm

My hunch would be since fingerling stocked fish act more like wild trout, reproduction would have a better chance. The musky has some reproduction, but is mainly a out and take fishery and managed as one.

Fishybig
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Fishybig » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:22 pm

The musky has some reproduction, but is mainly a out and take fishery and managed as one.
[/quote]

Well said

BillSmith
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by BillSmith » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm

To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
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Troutman
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Troutman » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

BillSmith wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm
To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
those some nice 1's................
Was known as Troutman1

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lightenup
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by lightenup » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:16 pm

BillSmith wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm
To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
I don't know if it matters.When I was younger, about 35 years ago, I caught a brookie like that in Clinton, next to Wargo's.... I killed it, the flesh was bright orange and it fought like a beast...last trout I knowingly killed...

robtf
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by robtf » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:39 pm

BillSmith wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm
To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
That happened on the Manasquan as well, which is what gave the idea for the "Sea Run Brown Trout" program they tried for years. But the truth is that are very few returns compared to the overwhelming numbers of stocked trout. Most likely just due to poor habitat to support the full sea run life cycle.

And this is just a side note to the issue of fingerlings vs. adult trout. The fingerling experiments on the Toms and Squan, as well as the surplus brown experiments on the Squan, showed very little promise.

But I don't think the discussion of salter brookies, sea run browns, or "steelhead" rainbows has direct bearing on the discussion of fingerling vs. adults in the Musky.
----

living in the land of clammies

joe_panella
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by joe_panella » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:04 pm

robtf wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:39 pm
BillSmith wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm
To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
That happened on the Manasquan as well, which is what gave the idea for the "Sea Run Brown Trout" program they tried for years. But the truth is that are very few returns compared to the overwhelming numbers of stocked trout. Most likely just due to poor habitat to support the full sea run life cycle.

And this is just a side note to the issue of fingerlings vs. adult trout. The fingerling experiments on the Toms and Squan, as well as the surplus brown experiments on the Squan, showed very little promise.

But I don't think the discussion of salter brookies, sea run browns, or "steelhead" rainbows has direct bearing on the discussion of fingerling vs. adults in the Musky.
Those fingerling trout were stocked in places that showed no in stream spawning. The idea of stocking them in the musky would be to try and create a breeding population of some size, if that didn't happen you create a fishery with fish that at least act wild.

Jaybird
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Jaybird » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:41 pm

Connecticut has a interesting program that was in Trout magazine awhile back where they harvested adult wild trout , fertilized the eggs with wild trout sperm , incubated them At the state hatchery and raised them until they were I believe fingerling , then released them . So they shared the dna of wild trout even though they had a little help . But as they got older didn't hurt the wild trout blood line .

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:53 pm

BillSmith wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:33 pm
To answer Johnw questions on returning Brook Trout. Here a few photos of Brook Trout caught from the Raritan river (save the mishandling comments please) when the State was stocking Brook Trout upriver. These trout were caught near the fish ladder in Bound Brook, not far from the tideline in New Brunswick. (except one) I sent these photos to the Sea Run Brook Trout Coalition in Massachusetts and they were pleasantly surprised, so much so they wanted to come down and start PIT tagging Brook Trout ! Personally witnessed quite a few fat pink bellied Brook Trout caught near the fish ladder. Still to this day an average of 100 trout a year swim UP through the fish ladder, the fish ladder is not near any stocking points.
That brook trout is 100% stocked holdover. You can clearly see regeneration of both the pectoral and pelvic fins. Stocked fish can literally swim hundreds of miles, so the fact that the fish ladder is not near a stocking point is totally irrelevant. Fish swim. Usually downstream. That was not a sea run fish. NJ has zero sea run trout now that the Muddysquan surplus brown trout stocking program has been over for years.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

Johnw
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Johnw » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:28 pm

If I remember correctly the State stocked some fingerling rainbows in the lower end of Hockhocson Brook in an effort to create a steelhead run in the Navesink River, and as far as I know it met the same fate as the Toms and Manasquan experiments.

joe_panella
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by joe_panella » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:59 pm

Jaybird wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:41 pm
Connecticut has a interesting program that was in Trout magazine awhile back where they harvested adult wild trout , fertilized the eggs with wild trout sperm , incubated them At the state hatchery and raised them until they were I believe fingerling , then released them . So they shared the dna of wild trout even though they had a little help . But as they got older didn't hurt the wild trout blood line .
I believe they do that on the Farmington, but i may be incorrect.

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coaltrout
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by coaltrout » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:03 pm

How about the delaware, if any river has sea runs in NJ why not that river?

Jaybird
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Jaybird » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:08 pm

joe_panella wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:59 pm
Jaybird wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:41 pm
Connecticut has a interesting program that was in Trout magazine awhile back where they harvested adult wild trout , fertilized the eggs with wild trout sperm , incubated them At the state hatchery and raised them until they were I believe fingerling , then released them . So they shared the dna of wild trout even though they had a little help . But as they got older didn't hurt the wild trout blood line .
I believe they do that on the Farmington, but i may be incorrect.
You are correct Sir

Fishybig
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Fishybig » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:32 am

Jaybird wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:08 pm
joe_panella wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:59 pm
Jaybird wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:41 pm
Connecticut has a interesting program that was in Trout magazine awhile back where they harvested adult wild trout , fertilized the eggs with wild trout sperm , incubated them At the state hatchery and raised them until they were I believe fingerling , then released them . So they shared the dna of wild trout even though they had a little help . But as they got older didn't hurt the wild trout blood line .
I believe they do that on the Farmington, but i may be incorrect.
You are correct Sir
I witnessed them do this on the beaverkill in the early 2000s..shortly after the second drought fishkill....however they were not released as fingerlings, just gr8 looking stocked trout...

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BiggerThomas
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by BiggerThomas » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:08 am

coaltrout wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:03 pm
How about the delaware, if any river has sea runs in NJ why not that river?
Good question, CT. I'm not an expert, but I'd think it impossible to know the exact osteichthyes inventory of an entire aquatic ecosystem so perhaps it's possible to have sea runs in the Delaware.

But speaking of fish swimming up river, the Delaware Shad should be running soon. Here's some info from the NJDFW webpage:

Every year American shad migrate up the Delaware River to spawn. The numbers and timing of the "shad run" vary year to year depending on water temperature and conditions. Having accurate, up-to-date information on the run can greatly impact on angling success and enjoyment (you can find that info on this website: https://www.drsfa.org/).
God have Mercy on the man who doubts what he's sure of.

Jaybird
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by Jaybird » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:40 am

I think it's safe to say trout migrate into tribs from the Delaware , and not just the tail water part . I don't fish the muskie but if the lower river is as cold as everyone says I'm sure it's a thermal refuge for trout in that area . Maybe not big numbers but in sure there are probably a few .

robtf
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Re: Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 29

Post by robtf » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:42 pm

Johnw wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:28 pm
If I remember correctly the State stocked some fingerling rainbows in the lower end of Hockhocson Brook in an effort to create a steelhead run in the Navesink River, and as far as I know it met the same fate as the Toms and Manasquan experiments.
You are correct. There was an older attempt at this, then later (before I moved away from it) they did surplus bow fingerlings in again for a few years.

The only report I heard was a guy who worked with Dave @ The Fly Hatch who said (*said* key word) that he caught a steelhead (sw 'bow) in the Navensink
*one time*. If he wasn't just shooting the breeze, that still means his was the sole catch I ever heard of for a salt-run salmonid in that area (The Hockhockson
eventually feeds into the Navesink, but the fish could have been from any number of sources, again, if true)
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