"State Open Waters"

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MickyFinn
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"State Open Waters"

Post by MickyFinn » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:32 pm

This might have already been discussed on here--but I wonder if anyone can clarify this. I'm walking along my local stream--part of which is posted with NJ DEP Fish and Wildlife tags on the trees--and then I see "No Trespassing" signs along another reach of the same stream, saying that that land (and presumably that stretch of the same stream that passes through the land) is leased to a local sporting club.

My understanding is that you can't bar passage along "State Open Waters"--that is, if I'm kayaking down some NJ river, I have the right to continue downstream and pass through any and all stretches whether the land on the riverbanks is privately-owned or leased.

So, my question is this: If you are wading the stream/river--and you're not even touching the lands to either side, can't you wade and fish the length of all NJ State Open Waters--whether the land to either side is privately-owned or leased by some club? Even if a cable crosses the water with a No Trespassing sign--would wading or boating through that stretch actually be trespassing?

SBRtool
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by SBRtool » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Not sure about the boating through but if a stream is posted on both sides of the river than you definitely cannot wade through. The state may own the actual water but the river bed bottom is private property if both sides are posted.

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lightenup
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by lightenup » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:10 pm

The owner owns to the "deepest thalweg" in New Jersey. so stay shallow on the opposite side "not posted" of the bank and you are good. As the previous guy said...both sides posted... "you shall not pass"...

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46er
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by 46er » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:52 pm

So, my question is this: If you are wading the stream/river--and you're not even touching the lands to either side, can't you wade and fish the length of all NJ State Open Waters--whether the land to either side is privately-owned or leased by some club? Even if a cable crosses the water with a No Trespassing sign--would wading or boating through that stretch actually be trespassing?
Two different questions; regarding wading, the answer would be you probably cannot. You are wading on the earth, has nothing to do with the water passing over it and it depends where the property line is under the water. As it regards a vessel(canoe, kayak, cruise ship), that falls under the navigable water laws. You need a good lawyer to answer that one. I had a place on the West Branch of the Ausable in the Adirondacks and there is/was an ongoing heated discussion as to what was navigable and what was not for many rivers/streams. The Ausable is, although I never saw a canoe or kayak float past.

An example; https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stor ... landowners
aka; Ralph
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cappy
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by cappy » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:17 pm

My understanding of a "navigable waterway" is - the waterway is used for commerce, transportation of people and or goods, and are the jurisdiction of the federal government.

MickyFinn
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by MickyFinn » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:43 am

Okay, I thank you all--and feel enlightened. I will watch my step! :roll:

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by Rusty Spinner » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:41 am

In NJ, the landowner owns the bed of the stream and the banks, but the state owns the actual water and fish in it. So you can paddle through without touching bottom unless you find a tree across the river or a dam, and then you can exit your vessel for "reasonable portage" around said obstacle. But you cannot then fish while out of the canoe/kayak/etc. Same goes for wading. If the state owns one side, you can wade in the river on that side. If the opposite side is private and posted, you cannot wade on that side. But you can cast from the state side to the private side.
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coaltrout
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by coaltrout » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:41 am
In NJ, the landowner owns the bed of the stream and the banks, but the state owns the actual water and fish in it. So you can paddle through without touching bottom unless you find a tree across the river or a dam, and then you can exit your vessel for "reasonable portage" around said obstacle. But you cannot then fish while out of the canoe/kayak/etc. Same goes for wading. If the state owns one side, you can wade in the river on that side. If the opposite side is private and posted, you cannot wade on that side. But you can cast from the state side to the private side.
Correct; this is what ive heard too

Troutman
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by Troutman » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:47 pm

if you use a floatation vessel on private property on both sides of the river. You are not allowed to use a anchor that touches bottom. But you can use a drift sock is so desired ;)
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lightenup
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by lightenup » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:02 pm

Troutman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:47 pm
if you use a floatation vessel on private property on both sides of the river. You are not allowed to use a anchor that touches bottom. But you can use a drift sock is so desired ;)
Bring water balloons in case the owner is out and about on the stream banks as well.

Troutman
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by Troutman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:22 am

lightenup wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:02 pm
Troutman wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:47 pm
if you use a floatation vessel on private property on both sides of the river. You are not allowed to use a anchor that touches bottom. But you can use a drift sock is so desired ;)
Bring water balloons in case the owner is out and about on the stream banks as well.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Was known as Troutman1

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Drossi
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Re: "State Open Waters"

Post by Drossi » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:55 am

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:41 am
In NJ, the landowner owns the bed of the stream and the banks, but the state owns the actual water and fish in it. So you can paddle through without touching bottom unless you find a tree across the river or a dam, and then you can exit your vessel for "reasonable portage" around said obstacle. But you cannot then fish while out of the canoe/kayak/etc. Same goes for wading. If the state owns one side, you can wade in the river on that side. If the opposite side is private and posted, you cannot wade on that side. But you can cast from the state side to the private side.
That's my understanding as well and how I've operated for the last 40 years. Plenty of good public access water to fret over the posted areas.
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