Van Campens restoration project.

All about trout fishing in the great Garden State!
User avatar
NJAngler
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Van Campens restoration project.

Post by NJAngler » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:56 am

It has started. Area is closed until 2022. Old Mine Road is closed probably through June. VC Brook is off limits from MIllbrook Village to the upper Glen trail parking lot until 2022. They have already clear cut a number of trees and vegetation along the creek( I snuck back there sunday to take a peek). The idea is to restore it to its natural course which means most of the watergate picnic area "lawn" is gone. All those aging concrete dams are history as well which I have been complaining about for 30 years. All ponds except Watergate pond will be removed as well far as I know. I have not read about any plans for a manmade barrier to prevent upstream migration of browns which has already occurred on a limited basis( I have caught 2 wild browns above Millbrook in the last year). I personally don't care as I enjoy fishing for all three species but who knows, maybe the NJDFGW will electro shock above the glen, remove all browns and bows, and then see how the brookies do. Its not as crazy as it sounds as I dont believe trout can get passed the two sets of glen falls. The lower one is steeper/higher but the upper has that long "slide" which I think is impossible to swim up. Who knows. I think overall the project will be a positive one but like many trout streams, weather mostly dictates the size and numbers of trout in any stream from year to year.

http://www.advertisernewssouth.com/news ... -GB1553822

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:47 pm

I tried to get a New Jersey chapter of TU many years ago to do a stream clean-up. I got the State park rangers to agree to come along and help. I was told that TU doesn't play well with the State Parks and that it wasn't their area...well at that time no one had that area then. I told them to enjoy their Pizza and beer, and left I quit T.U. the next day. Nice to see this, and maybe TU has changed?

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by Rusty Spinner » Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:57 pm

lightenup wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:47 pm
I tried to get a New Jersey chapter of TU many years ago to do a stream clean-up. I got the State park rangers to agree to come along and help. I was told that TU doesn't play well with the State Parks and that it wasn't their area...well at that time no one had that area then. I told them to enjoy their Pizza and beer, and left I quit T.U. the next day. Nice to see this, and maybe TU has changed?
It's not a State Park, its federal lands (DWGNRA). And yes, the Superintendent of the DWGNRA has twice screwed over the Fred S Burroughs North Jersey TU chapter. Sorry you were put off by their response, but imagine if you were an active member that gave money and time to attempt to do a stream restoration project on the Flatbrook only to be used not once, but twice by the same head of the federal property. I was directly involved the second time and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:22 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:57 pm
lightenup wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:47 pm
I tried to get a New Jersey chapter of TU many years ago to do a stream clean-up. I got the State park rangers to agree to come along and help. I was told that TU doesn't play well with the State Parks and that it wasn't their area...well at that time no one had that area then. I told them to enjoy their Pizza and beer, and left I quit T.U. the next day. Nice to see this, and maybe TU has changed?
It's not a State Park, its federal lands (DWGNRA). And yes, the Superintendent of the DWGNRA has twice screwed over the Fred S Burroughs North Jersey TU chapter. Sorry you were put off by their response, but imagine if you were an active member that gave money and time to attempt to do a stream restoration project on the Flatbrook only to be used not once, but twice by the same head of the federal property. I was directly involved the second time and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't Fred Burroughs chapter. I won't say here as it was more than 10 years ago....you know these people well Rusty. Yes Federal (my bad) park Rangers agreeed to come along as there were many unsavory people around Vam Campen then. Especially the Glen. The Feds played along TU wouldn't and when I told them that we weren't doing it....they said it figures with TU...so it wasnt the parks fault. I am now perturbed again so TU can piss off for another year ;)

User avatar
NJAngler
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by NJAngler » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:03 pm

A lot of riff raff hanging around the park since the pandemic began. Park fees would take care of many of them but alas that idea got scrapped. So we anglers and hikers are left not being able to hike or fish anywhere in peace since every lot and trail is full of out of towners escaping the cities infected with Covid. I've seen baby strollers being pushed on trails that a mt bike would have difficulty riding on. And I just love the sound of Spanish permeating throughout the beautiful ravine as I fish and they scream at each other on the trail while walking in a group of about twenty. Disgusting. Welcome to Bidens vision of America.

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:01 am

NJAngler wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:03 pm
A lot of riff raff hanging around the park since the pandemic began. Park fees would take care of many of them but alas that idea got scrapped. So we anglers and hikers are left not being able to hike or fish anywhere in peace since every lot and trail is full of out of towners escaping the cities infected with Covid. I've seen baby strollers being pushed on trails that a mt bike would have difficulty riding on. And I just love the sound of Spanish permeating throughout the beautiful ravine as I fish and they scream at each other on the trail while walking in a group of about twenty. Disgusting. Welcome to Bidens vision of America.
This was during Bush's American. Don't forget to add dirty diapers and styrofoam cooler being tossed in the creek..iIt doesn't matter who the President is for assholes to litter amd destroy property.

Jaybird
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:23 am

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by Jaybird » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:55 am

Well known fact old white guys love Reggaeton Music , it's an aquirred taste with age .

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm
Location: https://goo.gl/maps/KZAZHSGSBRnizQNh9

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by coaltrout » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm

lol if it's a national recreation area expect out-of-towners, it's actually a tourist attraction and you're complaining there's too many people. It's like deciding to go bird watching at the Leaning Tower of Pisa and being upset that there's too many people. :mrgreen:

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:12 pm

coaltrout wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
lol if it's a national recreation area expect out-of-towners, it's actually a tourist attraction and you're complaining there's too many people. It's like deciding to go bird watching at the Leaning Tower of Pisa and being upset that there's too many people. :mrgreen:
Do you think it's Ok to piss and shit on the Tower at Pisa? Drop your babies diapers next to it? Play music at the loudest you can out of an 80's boom box in the Louvre? how about you show a little respect to the public place you are visiting. It is not at all even close to the same thing. I wouldn't mind if they were there, I would probably talk to them and ask how their day was going as I speak a little Spanish, just don't piss and shit all over it and act like you are at your buddies house party. It's the god damn rednecks swimming in that creek that are the dangerous ones, the Central and South Americans are just disrespectful.

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm
Location: https://goo.gl/maps/KZAZHSGSBRnizQNh9

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by coaltrout » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:50 pm

As a guy who likes peace and quiet too, i just dont choose to fish waters in actual tourist attractions, lol. yes i find it annoying too but it's the price your gonna pay for having access to a national recreation area. Liter too, id advocate the park admins to figure out how to reduce liter without just closing down the whole place.

Fishybig
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:43 am

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by Fishybig » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:40 pm

coaltrout wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:50 pm
As a guy who likes peace and quiet too, i just dont choose to fish waters in actual tourist attractions, lol. yes i find it annoying too but it's the price your gonna pay for having access to a national recreation area. Liter too, id advocate the park admins to figure out how to reduce liter without just closing down the whole place.
Valid points ,but as a very young new fisherman I'm pretty sure you've never witnessed vcb in its glory days...some old er anglers are just frustrated with what it could be with a little bit of effort..that being said , the place has changed for the worse, as have many other places...still does not justify what's been happening there in the last ten yrs...as always, enforcement is the problem

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm
Location: https://goo.gl/maps/KZAZHSGSBRnizQNh9

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by coaltrout » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:59 pm

correct i wasnt around for that, I imagine it was a hidden gem of NJ. I do wish the project helps the fishery, and more importantly hope we see parks in NJ solve some of those issues. My gripe is that Im too tired of parks getting closed down and inaccessible just because they dont have any action-plans/enforcements in place.

User avatar
46er
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by 46er » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:30 pm

There is plenty of water to fish in the NRA on both sides of the river that see little to no people at all. The area your discussing is a weekend spot. With the closure those folks will probably find somewhere else to roost. Just carry bear spray; if it gets unbearable and the wind is right a short burst will clear them out :twisted:
aka; Ralph
________________________________

The irony of the Human condition is that we are so focused on reaching some point in our journey, some happiness, or some goal, that we seem to forget that the journey itself is where life happens.

Jaybird
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:23 am

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by Jaybird » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:19 am

Look it sucks but for me Van Campers is strictly a cold weather / weekday destination . I know they can't ...... Again I'll say , I know they can't but I love what they did on the broadhead . Parks system is for residents to use and PA fishing license holders every one else can use it but it's 10$ a person . That has thinned out the crowds . Other Pa streams have done this for the better as well .

User avatar
BiggerThomas
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:44 pm
Location: Whenever somebody's looking to be free...look in their eyes--you'll see me.

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by BiggerThomas » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:57 pm

lightenup wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:12 pm
coaltrout wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
lol if it's a national recreation area expect out-of-towners, it's actually a tourist attraction and you're complaining there's too many people. It's like deciding to go bird watching at the Leaning Tower of Pisa and being upset that there's too many people. :mrgreen:
Do you think it's Ok to piss and shit on the Tower at Pisa? Drop your babies diapers next to it? Play music at the loudest you can out of an 80's boom box in the Louvre? how about you show a little respect to the public place you are visiting. It is not at all even close to the same thing. I wouldn't mind if they were there, I would probably talk to them and ask how their day was going as I speak a little Spanish, just don't piss and shit all over it and act like you are at your buddies house party. It's the god damn rednecks swimming in that creek that are the dangerous ones, the Central and South Americans are just disrespectful.
I can tolerate critiques of many wavelengths of political thinking, but when it comes to an 80s boom box, I have to draw the line. Back off, lightenup!
Every Night & every Morn
Some to Misery are Born
Every Morn and every Night
Some are Born to sweet delight
Some are Born to sweet delight
Some are Born to Endless Night
___________________________
--William Blake, "Auguries of Innocence"

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:46 pm

BiggerThomas wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:57 pm
lightenup wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:12 pm
coaltrout wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:17 pm
lol if it's a national recreation area expect out-of-towners, it's actually a tourist attraction and you're complaining there's too many people. It's like deciding to go bird watching at the Leaning Tower of Pisa and being upset that there's too many people. :mrgreen:
Do you think it's Ok to piss and shit on the Tower at Pisa? Drop your babies diapers next to it? Play music at the loudest you can out of an 80's boom box in the Louvre? how about you show a little respect to the public place you are visiting. It is not at all even close to the same thing. I wouldn't mind if they were there, I would probably talk to them and ask how their day was going as I speak a little Spanish, just don't piss and shit all over it and act like you are at your buddies house party. It's the god damn rednecks swimming in that creek that are the dangerous ones, the Central and South Americans are just disrespectful.
I can tolerate critiques of many wavelengths of political thinking, but when it comes to an 80s boom box, I have to draw the line. Back off, lightenup!
:lol: Agreed, my apologies...

MickyFinn
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:25 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by MickyFinn » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 am

There are few roads that allow entry to the NJ side of the DWGNRA. How about putting a gate and ranger booth on each of them and charge an entry fee from Memorial Day to Labor Day? Seriously, is that so far-fetched? I've heard that the DWGNRA is chronically under-funded. Entree fees! The National Parks do it--and, in my opinion, they don't charge high enough fees for what the people are accessing.

My favorite Van Campens anecdote: Took my family there on a summer Saturday afternoon--peak season. In the upper part of the glen there was a group of about thirty people--all one ethnicity, speaking something close to Spanish. They had carried in a long, folding table and about a half-dozen hookah pipes are parked on it; others are already in use. Most of the group is in the brook, swimming and splashing.

There is boom-box music playing loudly and a full-sized charcoal grill in use near the water's edge. There are roughly 12-15 guys from the main group climbing the cliffs to jump from there into the deep water below the falls. They are passing around the biggest glass bottle of Patron tequilla that I have ever seen and I'm hoping they don't drop it. One guy stands out: he is jumping from the highest point on the cliffs, going higher than anyone else. He is also the most-drunken guy in the gang; he can hardly stand-up between jumps.

This big group has the area around the main falls monopolized, so we go to another big pool downstream. There we find another group of about twenty--all of the same ethnicity as the upstream crowd. Same sort of scenario: swimming, loud boom box, charcoal grill, and hookah pipe smoking. Some people smoking hookah pipes while they float in the pool on tubes.

So count the violations: swimming in an unauthorized area, prohibited cliff-jumping into the water, alcoholic beverages, open fires, and who-knows-what controlled substance might be in the hookah pipes.

Again, this is a Saturday afternoon in the peak summer tourist season while this goes on. This mob is loud enough to be heard from nearby Old Mine Road. During the considerable amount of time my family and I have been down in the glen, at one area and then the other, we saw no ranger, despite the carnival-like hub-bub.

None of it looked good. I imagined the scene back at the ranger HQ, each staff member in turn shaking their head: No, he or she did NOT want to go down in there and get involved in a "racial incident".

So, new signs have gone up: "Groups of 20 or more prohibited." "No cooking grills." "No alcohol." Maybe even no glass bottles?

Signs and reasonable regulations are good, but they still have to be enforced.

Sorry for the long post.

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:36 pm

MickyFinn wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 am
There are few roads that allow entry to the NJ side of the DWGNRA. How about putting a gate and ranger booth on each of them and charge an entry fee from Memorial Day to Labor Day? Seriously, is that so far-fetched? I've heard that the DWGNRA is chronically under-funded. Entree fees! The National Parks do it--and, in my opinion, they don't charge high enough fees for what the people are accessing.

My favorite Van Campens anecdote: Took my family there on a summer Saturday afternoon--peak season. In the upper part of the glen there was a group of about thirty people--all one ethnicity, speaking something close to Spanish. They had carried in a long, folding table and about a half-dozen hookah pipes are parked on it; others are already in use. Most of the group is in the brook, swimming and splashing.

There is boom-box music playing loudly and a full-sized charcoal grill in use near the water's edge. There are roughly 12-15 guys from the main group climbing the cliffs to jump from there into the deep water below the falls. They are passing around the biggest glass bottle of Patron tequilla that I have ever seen and I'm hoping they don't drop it. One guy stands out: he is jumping from the highest point on the cliffs, going higher than anyone else. He is also the most-drunken guy in the gang; he can hardly stand-up between jumps.

This big group has the area around the main falls monopolized, so we go to another big pool downstream. There we find another group of about twenty--all of the same ethnicity as the upstream crowd. Same sort of scenario: swimming, loud boom box, charcoal grill, and hookah pipe smoking. Some people smoking hookah pipes while they float in the pool on tubes.

So count the violations: swimming in an unauthorized area, prohibited cliff-jumping into the water, alcoholic beverages, open fires, and who-knows-what controlled substance might be in the hookah pipes.

Again, this is a Saturday afternoon in the peak summer tourist season while this goes on. This mob is loud enough to be heard from nearby Old Mine Road. During the considerable amount of time my family and I have been down in the glen, at one area and then the other, we saw no ranger, despite the carnival-like hub-bub.

None of it looked good. I imagined the scene back at the ranger HQ, each staff member in turn shaking their head: No, he or she did NOT want to go down in there and get involved in a "racial incident".

So, new signs have gone up: "Groups of 20 or more prohibited." "No cooking grills." "No alcohol." Maybe even no glass bottles?

Signs and reasonable regulations are good, but they still have to be enforced.

Sorry for the long post.
I experienced the exact same thing about a decade ago, that is when I tried to do the stream clean-up....no hookahs though. I also went to the waterslide pool, whatever the name of it is and I ran into a smaller group, all one ethnicity (white and trashy) swimming and drinking and throwing beer cans in the creek. I politely mentioned how illegal it was and the guy said, "no one gives a shit but you, just leave" I wasn't even fishing...what a douche!!!!

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:20 pm

lightenup wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:22 pm
Rusty Spinner wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:57 pm
lightenup wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:47 pm
I tried to get a New Jersey chapter of TU many years ago to do a stream clean-up. I got the State park rangers to agree to come along and help. I was told that TU doesn't play well with the State Parks and that it wasn't their area...well at that time no one had that area then. I told them to enjoy their Pizza and beer, and left I quit T.U. the next day. Nice to see this, and maybe TU has changed?
It's not a State Park, its federal lands (DWGNRA). And yes, the Superintendent of the DWGNRA has twice screwed over the Fred S Burroughs North Jersey TU chapter. Sorry you were put off by their response, but imagine if you were an active member that gave money and time to attempt to do a stream restoration project on the Flatbrook only to be used not once, but twice by the same head of the federal property. I was directly involved the second time and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't Fred Burroughs chapter. I won't say here as it was more than 10 years ago....you know these people well Rusty. Yes Federal (my bad) park Rangers agreeed to come along as there were many unsavory people around Vam Campen then. Especially the Glen. The Feds played along TU wouldn't and when I told them that we weren't doing it....they said it figures with TU...so it wasnt the parks fault. I am now perturbed again so TU can piss off for another year ;)
Just to circle back on this, the Fred Burroughs TU chapter covers that area. Had you wanted to work with TU on a stream cleanup, it should have been with that chapter. Chapters don't like stepping on other chapter's toes when it comes to things like that. We reach out for approval before we cross territories. My guess is whatever pushback you received, that had something to do with it at the time.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
lightenup
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:35 pm

Re: Van Campens restoration project.

Post by lightenup » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:45 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:20 pm
lightenup wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:22 pm
Rusty Spinner wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:57 pm


It's not a State Park, its federal lands (DWGNRA). And yes, the Superintendent of the DWGNRA has twice screwed over the Fred S Burroughs North Jersey TU chapter. Sorry you were put off by their response, but imagine if you were an active member that gave money and time to attempt to do a stream restoration project on the Flatbrook only to be used not once, but twice by the same head of the federal property. I was directly involved the second time and it really left a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't Fred Burroughs chapter. I won't say here as it was more than 10 years ago....you know these people well Rusty. Yes Federal (my bad) park Rangers agreeed to come along as there were many unsavory people around Vam Campen then. Especially the Glen. The Feds played along TU wouldn't and when I told them that we weren't doing it....they said it figures with TU...so it wasnt the parks fault. I am now perturbed again so TU can piss off for another year ;)
Just to circle back on this, the Fred Burroughs TU chapter covers that area. Had you wanted to work with TU on a stream cleanup, it should have been with that chapter. Chapters don't like stepping on other chapter's toes when it comes to things like that. We reach out for approval before we cross territories. My guess is whatever pushback you received, that had something to do with it at the time.
That is a big fat excuse. They should have put me in touch with that chapter then instead of saying it was no ones area. BIG FAT AND LAZY...eat pizza, drink beer, have raffles, stock with the state...that was all they were doing. I hope times have changed.

Post Reply