Wild Brook trout

[Drossi]

With the high water levels I hit a wild brook trout stream that's on state land in search of fish. Had a ball catching a half dozen 7"-8" wild................fall fish! Not a brookie to be found where I used to catch quite a few, they've been replace by the fall fish. I strongly suspect that something changed in this watershed and that brook trout are no longer present (I've fished it several times over the last few years with no trout observed). It's a documented wild trout reproduction in the old Coldwater Fisheries plan. Is there a way to get an update or an electro shock done, I mean if it's no longer populated with brook trout it A) might as well be added to the stocking list or B) might be worthwhile to try planting wild browns from another documented wild trout stream.

[Rusty Spinner]

With the high water levels I hit a wild brook trout stream that's on state land in search of fish. Had a ball catching a half dozen 7"-8" wild................fall fish! Not a brookie to be found where I used to catch quite a few, they've been replace by the fall fish. I strongly suspect that something changed in this watershed and that brook trout are no longer present (I've fished it several times over the last few years with no trout observed). It's a documented wild trout reproduction in the old Coldwater Fisheries plan. Is there a way to get an update or an electro shock done, I mean if it's no longer populated with brook trout it A) might as well be added to the stocking list or B) might be worthwhile to try planting wild browns from another documented wild trout stream.

Contact Shawn Crouse, the newly appointed Chief of Freshwater Fisheries. He can tell you the last time it was electro fished as well as the results. One thing I can tell you is that the Division will never stocked or move wild brown trout into a stream that has or even that had native brook trout. Chances are something changed as you suspect, and that would most likely impact browns and rainbows as much as the brookies. But all the Division's recent coldwater efforts are aimed at bringing back and/or protecting our native fisheries and not introduction of non-natives.

[BiggerThomas]

I mean if it's no longer populated with brook trout it A) might as well be added to the stocking list or B) might be worthwhile to try planting wild browns from another documented wild trout stream.

Nah, it's good PR for it to remain classified as such. Everyone knows the presence of Brook Trout indicates clean water, so it helps reverse the Dirty Jersey narrative.

[Rusty Spinner]

I mean if it's no longer populated with brook trout it A) might as well be added to the stocking list or B) might be worthwhile to try planting wild browns from another documented wild trout stream.

Nah, it's good PR for it to remain classified as such. Everyone knows the presence of Brook Trout indicates clean water, so it helps reverse the Dirty Jersey narrative.

Division biologists constantly change classifications of streams based on electrofishing results. Some improve while others degrade. Not sure which stream Drossi is referencing here, but it may be that it can no longer support trout for a variety of reasons. In that case, it will eventually get its TP/TM/NT listing changed.

[coaltrout]

drossi hit me up ill just dump some brookies from dunnfield and start keeping all those creek chubs for my Sardine-Pizza recipe.

Worked with middle brook, should work with any other stream amiright??

Jokes aside, I wonder if they would find it optimal to introduce brookies from another stream in the same watershed, I reckon they would have to investigate WHY they brookies left. Creek chubs arent known to overtake/displace them right? Only when another part of the stream changes?

[Drossi]

drossi hit me up ill just dump some brookies from dunnfield and start keeping all those creek chubs for my Sardine-Pizza recipe.

Worked with middle brook, should work with any other stream amiright??

Jokes aside, I wonder if they would find it optimal to introduce brookies from another stream in the same watershed, I reckon they would have to investigate WHY they brookies left. Creek chubs arent known to overtake/displace them right? Only when another part of the stream changes?

The stream itself has several branches so I was hoping that maybe they would move out of the branches back down into the mainstem but doesn't seem to be the case.

[Rusty Spinner]

drossi hit me up ill just dump some brookies from dunnfield and start keeping all those creek chubs for my Sardine-Pizza recipe.

Worked with middle brook, should work with any other stream amiright??

Jokes aside, I wonder if they would find it optimal to introduce brookies from another stream in the same watershed, I reckon they would have to investigate WHY they brookies left. Creek chubs arent known to overtake/displace them right? Only when another part of the stream changes?

They have done and are doing this. But only where brook trout can survive and where they "should be" in the first place.

[Fishybig]

Call me what you will but when im in tiny lil trout streams my fallfish always get chucked up onto the bank,deep in the woods....racoons gotta eat too.

[Rusty Spinner]

Call me what you will but when im in tiny lil trout streams my fallfish always get chucked up onto the bank,deep in the woods....racoons gotta eat too.

Curious as to why you would do that with a native fish that trout eat when they are younger? They do not compete with trout other than to eat the same insects, but do not push trout out of prime lies like brown trout do to other trout, especially to brookies. To each his own, I guess.

[Fishybig]

Call me what you will but when im in tiny lil trout streams my fallfish always get chucked up onto the bank,deep in the woods....racoons gotta eat too.

Curious as to why you would do that with a native fish that trout eat when they are younger? They do not compete with trout other than to eat the same insects, but do not push trout out of prime lies like brown trout do to other trout, especially to brookies. To each his own, I guess.

Ive personally noticed that once fallfish populations increase, trout populations decrease....and vice versa...so anytime a catch a fallfish in some favorite trout tribs, to the woods they go....pretty sure once they reach a certain size, they eat as many trout eggs as they can find??

[Drossi]

Call me what you will but when im in tiny lil trout streams my fallfish always get chucked up onto the bank,deep in the woods....racoons gotta eat too.

Curious as to why you would do that with a native fish that trout eat when they are younger? They do not compete with trout other than to eat the same insects, but do not push trout out of prime lies like brown trout do to other trout, especially to brookies. To each his own, I guess.

Ive personally noticed that once fallfish populations increase, trout populations decrease....and vice versa...so anytime a catch a fallfish in some favorite trout tribs, to the woods they go....pretty sure once they reach a certain size, they eat as many trout eggs as they can find??

IMO big fall fish in NJ streams signal 2 things to me. 1) Low trout population feeding on YoY fall fish allowing them to grow. 2) Light fishing pressure, particularly by bait fisherman. Bait, especially worms slay the fall fish and most people that catch them use them to feed the raccoon population on the stream bank.

[brettdv]

Has anyone noticed the same correlation with chubs and Brook trout?

Fished a brook I haven’t been to in more than a few years. Brook trout numbers were never off the charts high at this spot but the avg size made you for the lack of numbers. High gradient stream below a dam. Fished it hard for nearly 4 hours and zero Brookies. I must have caught 75+/- chubs. Water levels were fine. Nearly every cast is each decent pocket was hit. Some quiet large but a lot mixed class years. Made me wonder if the brookies have been reduced/eliminated. I can’t see them competing with the sheer number of chubs for food. I may have seen a few redds but could have been recent rain events clearing out the gravel.

Might give it another shot downstream but seems to run through swamp and beaver ponds before getting stocked further downstream.

[martalus]

Has anyone noticed the same correlation with chubs and Brook trout?

Fished a brook I haven’t been to in more than a few years. Brook trout numbers were never off the charts high at this spot but the avg size made you for the lack of numbers. High gradient stream below a dam. Fished it hard for nearly 4 hours and zero Brookies. I must have caught 75+/- chubs. Water levels were fine. Nearly every cast is each decent pocket was hit. Some quiet large but a lot mixed class years. Made me wonder if the brookies have been reduced/eliminated. I can’t see them competing with the sheer number of chubs for food. I may have seen a few redds but could have been recent rain events clearing out the gravel.

Might give it another shot downstream but seems to run through swamp and beaver ponds before getting stocked further downstream.

Could they have been busy spawning? I havent fished that place in about 10 years, but I cant imagine what would disrupt the brookies there as its a tailwater with the whole headwater section protected from development on public land. Every so often I would get skunked there and only catch chubs and then the next time I would catch a 14 inch wild brookie with serious shoulders. I am curious if something bad did happen or if they just moved around (either to a trickle to spawn or down to the beaver ponds for winter)

[Drossi]

Has anyone noticed the same correlation with chubs and Brook trout?

Fished a brook I haven’t been to in more than a few years. Brook trout numbers were never off the charts high at this spot but the avg size made you for the lack of numbers. High gradient stream below a dam. Fished it hard for nearly 4 hours and zero Brookies. I must have caught 75+/- chubs. Water levels were fine. Nearly every cast is each decent pocket was hit. Some quiet large but a lot mixed class years. Made me wonder if the brookies have been reduced/eliminated. I can’t see them competing with the sheer number of chubs for food. I may have seen a few redds but could have been recent rain events clearing out the gravel.

Might give it another shot downstream but seems to run through swamp and beaver ponds before getting stocked further downstream.

Could they have been busy spawning? I havent fished that place in about 10 years, but I cant imagine what would disrupt the brookies there as its a tailwater with the whole headwater section protected from development on public land. Every so often I would get skunked there and only catch chubs and then the next time I would catch a 14 inch wild brookie with serious shoulders. I am curious if something bad did happen or if they just moved around (either to a trickle to spawn or down to the beaver ponds for winter)

My supposition is that something changed in the tailwater mixture that caused a prolonged spillage of warm top water putting a severe damper on the brookie population. At one point I started catching largemouths down by where the houses are.

[cappy]

Has anyone noticed the same correlation with chubs and Brook trout?

Fished a brook I haven’t been to in more than a few years. Brook trout numbers were never off the charts high at this spot but the avg size made you for the lack of numbers. High gradient stream below a dam. Fished it hard for nearly 4 hours and zero Brookies. I must have caught 75+/- chubs. Water levels were fine. Nearly every cast is each decent pocket was hit. Some quiet large but a lot mixed class years. Made me wonder if the brookies have been reduced/eliminated. I can’t see them competing with the sheer number of chubs for food. I may have seen a few redds but could have been recent rain events clearing out the gravel.

Might give it another shot downstream but seems to run through swamp and beaver ponds before getting stocked further downstream.

Could they have been busy spawning? I havent fished that place in about 10 years, but I cant imagine what would disrupt the brookies there as its a tailwater with the whole headwater section protected from development on public land. Every so often I would get skunked there and only catch chubs and then the next time I would catch a 14 inch wild brookie with serious shoulders. I am curious if something bad did happen or if they just moved around (either to a trickle to spawn or down to the beaver ponds for winter)

My supposition is that something changed in the tailwater mixture that caused a prolonged spillage of warm top water putting a severe damper on the brookie population. At one point I started catching largemouths down by where the houses are.

I agree. I've caught just as many sunfish as fallfish. I give at least one try a year since I live close by just to see if something changed for the better. Been a good number of years since I saw a trout in that water. I always pick up fish where they should be, just not trout, and brookies are aggressive, if they were there I would have picked one up.

[martalus]

Ok, this sounds more concerning. DenisF must be turning in his grave. This might be one of those times where it is worth it that there are several people that have eyes on a particular stream. Who would be responsible for determining if there is an issue with the tailwater release? It would be also good to have different segments of the stream sampled again. As I recall, when the reservoir was built, brookies got wiped out due to a cut in flows, but a labrador strain was restocked by a private landowner. Perhaps this is an opportunity to have the native strain re-stocked from another stream in the area.

[Drossi]

Could they have been busy spawning? I havent fished that place in about 10 years, but I cant imagine what would disrupt the brookies there as its a tailwater with the whole headwater section protected from development on public land. Every so often I would get skunked there and only catch chubs and then the next time I would catch a 14 inch wild brookie with serious shoulders. I am curious if something bad did happen or if they just moved around (either to a trickle to spawn or down to the beaver ponds for winter)

My supposition is that something changed in the tailwater mixture that caused a prolonged spillage of warm top water putting a severe damper on the brookie population. At one point I started catching largemouths down by where the houses are.

I agree. I've caught just as many sunfish as fallfish. I give at least one try a year since I live close by just to see if something changed for the better. Been a good number of years since I saw a trout in that water. I always pick up fish where they should be, just not trout, and brookies are aggressive, if they were there I would have picked one up.

Well I'm glad it's not just my pathetic angling skills then but not glad.

I did get this back from Scott Collenburg at NJDEP -- "Thank you for your email and concern. The latest information we have in regards to xxxx was an electrofishing survey done in 2010 where Brook Trout were captured. I’ll schedule a survey for the summer of 2022 to help determine the extent of decline."

He asked me for location information of where I fished to compare it to the area they had surveyed in 2010, I was fishing within the same area as were others that have commented above.

[martalus]

Good to see that you guys are on top of it and that the division will take a look see-I am not sure how their findings could translate into any action with the release of the reservoir, but at last they will have data as the basis for any recommendation. In the meantime-hopefully some brookies did survive and can repopulate the area-there are at least four tiny tribs that I can see on the map in that area-maybe there are some holdouts there than can repopulate.

[cappy]

Thanks Drossi!!

[Drossi]

In the meantime-hopefully some brookies did survive and can repopulate the area-there are at least four tiny tribs that I can see on the map in that area-maybe there are some holdouts there than can repopulate.

Not looking good for that. I went back into my pictures and the last brookie from there for me came in 2013. I think I've tried every few years since to see if they rebounded.

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