Pond Rehab and Stocking

Warm water, salt water and more. Talk about it here!
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Twism86
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Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Twism86 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:36 am

Hi all,

Im house sitting for a friend in Califon with a small pond. Probably a little over 100'x60'. Full of sunnies and small bass. Here is biggest ive got yet..

Image

Most others are 6-8". This guy was decent with a nice little belly.

The pond is choked 15' in from all sides with lilly pads. As you can see in the picture I have helped clear some out with a weed razor (sinks to the bottom and cut the lilly stems). I suggest to him only cutting a few patches out to leave cover for the fish. He wants to stock it with a few more big fish but doesnt know where to start. Does anyone know anything about adding the right amount of large bass and maybe a grass carp to control weeds?

Tom
"Stupidity is scary but genius can be frightening.
Genius built the atom bomb. Genius topples nations."

Kronk
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Kronk » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:32 pm

Musky Trout Hatchery has Large mouth Bass and Grass Carp,also Crappies and of course trout all nice healthy full finned fish.They deliver to your area and are used by Shannons Fly Shop.They can advise and supply your needs. Tel # 908 479 4893. (No I do not work for them)

Kronk

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:48 am

Twism86 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:36 am
Hi all,

Im house sitting for a friend in Califon with a small pond. Probably a little over 100'x60'. Full of sunnies and small bass. Here is biggest ive got yet..

Image

Most others are 6-8". This guy was decent with a nice little belly.

The pond is choked 15' in from all sides with lilly pads. As you can see in the picture I have helped clear some out with a weed razor (sinks to the bottom and cut the lilly stems). I suggest to him only cutting a few patches out to leave cover for the fish. He wants to stock it with a few more big fish but doesnt know where to start. Does anyone know anything about adding the right amount of large bass and maybe a grass carp to control weeds?

Tom
If only we had an active poster on GST that owns a firm that does pond design and building. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:53 am

Ball breaking aside, a couple of things. First, make 100% sure he gets the $2 fish stocking permit approved by the Division before buying any fish and stocking them. What types of weeds are in the pond other than lily pads and the cattails I see in the background which are native, but highly invasive (we remove them and warn clients not to plant them)? Stocking big bass isn't the answer; instead, he wants to have good habitat and good forage for the bass to grow large in his pond. Depth is likely already set in that he won't be digging it out, but I can't see depths. Happy to help any time as I live 20 minutes away and am in the fly shop often which is in the same town....
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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Twism86
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Twism86 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:02 am

The pond is deeper in the center, at least 6' if not more. I dont see an inflow but probably spring fed from the ground up. Lots of sunnies and small bass with the one in the picture being the only bigger one I have seen and caught, so the potential is there. Its got a resident snapper and tons of frogs also.

Along with the lillies there seems to be just common algae that floats on the surface.
"Stupidity is scary but genius can be frightening.
Genius built the atom bomb. Genius topples nations."

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Twism86 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:02 am
The pond is deeper in the center, at least 6' if not more. I dont see an inflow but probably spring fed from the ground up. Lots of sunnies and small bass with the one in the picture being the only bigger one I have seen and caught, so the potential is there. Its got a resident snapper and tons of frogs also.

Along with the lillies there seems to be just common algae that floats on the surface.
Let's take a look on Saturday and I can better offer suggestions. Stocking isn't the answer when the fish you want are already present. You're just looking for bigger bass. Food and structure are key there. It's a small pond, so you are limited in what you can expect.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

martalus
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by martalus » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:07 am

Based on the limited size of the pond, a calculated cull of the small-medium sized bass may also be part of the answer. Fish fry!

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:49 pm

So, I find it odd that a permit is needed to stock fish on your own property, as well as needing a licences to fish a private pond on private property....Yes, yes, that pond may be attched to public rivers through streams, but i don't give a shit..private property should be just that, private.....like needing permits to better your home, and then having the tax assessor come and raise your taxes because you made your property nicer.....hey, how's about ya' ***** off tax assessor... :twisted:

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Drossi
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Drossi » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:57 pm

lightenup wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:49 pm
So, I find it odd that a permit is needed to stock fish on your own property, as well as needing a licences to fish a private pond on private property....Yes, yes, that pond may be attched to public rivers through streams, but i don't give a shit..private property should be just that, private.....like needing permits to better your home, and then having the tax assessor come and raise your taxes because you made your property nicer.....hey, how's about ya' **** off tax assessor... :twisted:
And you expect nothing less of NJ than wanting a taste for allowing you the permission to do what you want on YOUR OWN property? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.
You're NOT worthy
Purveyor of the dark art of the long rod
slingin' cane

garden hackle
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by garden hackle » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:57 am

lightenup wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:49 pm
So, I find it odd that a permit is needed to stock fish on your own property, as well as needing a licences to fish a private pond on private property....Yes, yes, that pond may be attched to public rivers through streams, but i don't give a shit..private property should be just that, private.....like needing permits to better your home, and then having the tax assessor come and raise your taxes because you made your property nicer.....hey, how's about ya' **** off tax assessor... :twisted:
So, if you have a stream running through your private property you should be able to build a dam of any size of your choosing and decide how much runoff you will allow? How about dumping toxic waste on your “private property” or better yet, your upstream neighbor dumping toxic waste on his property.

Of course not, those actions affects people downstream, just like potentially stocking invasive species of fish in a pond with connection to public waters. That is why a permit is required and only costs $2 to make it affordable and double checks what you are doing. That $2 doesn’t even come close to for someone reading your application and issuing you a permit.

I suspect you may call it “govmint” intrusion, but you have been benefiting from these laws for a long time and take them for granted. Lightenup and go fishin’

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:20 pm

garden hackle wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:57 am
lightenup wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:49 pm
So, I find it odd that a permit is needed to stock fish on your own property, as well as needing a licences to fish a private pond on private property....Yes, yes, that pond may be attched to public rivers through streams, but i don't give a shit..private property should be just that, private.....like needing permits to better your home, and then having the tax assessor come and raise your taxes because you made your property nicer.....hey, how's about ya' **** off tax assessor... :twisted:
So, if you have a stream running through your private property you should be able to build a dam of any size of your choosing and decide how much runoff you will allow? How about dumping toxic waste on your “private property” or better yet, your upstream neighbor dumping toxic waste on his property.

Of course not, those actions affects people downstream, just like potentially stocking invasive species of fish in a pond with connection to public waters. That is why a permit is required and only costs $2 to make it affordable and double checks what you are doing. That $2 doesn’t even come close to for someone reading your application and issuing you a permit.

I suspect you may call it “govmint” intrusion, but you have been benefiting from these laws for a long time and take them for granted. Lightenup and go fishin’
I hear snake heads and Asian carp are loads of fun to catch ;) ...The stocking permit..You make an excellent point!! Thanks....but, I still should not need a license to fish a private pond on private property...and how about those tax assessments?
As soon as it cools off a bit I will be fishing!!!!

Dave B.
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Dave B. » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:54 pm

lightenup wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:20 pm
I hear snake heads and Asian carp are loads of fun to catch ;) ...The stocking permit..You make an excellent point!! Thanks....but, I still should not need a license to fish a private pond on private property...and how about those tax assessments?
As soon as it cools off a bit I will be fishing!!!!
If the pond is on your own property where you actually live then no license is required for you or any immediate family members residing on the property. The same rule applies to any river or stream sections flowing through your property, again provided you actually live there. It matters not if it's a stocked stream or not, your home, no license. However all other regs apply.
One other issue obtaining a stocking permit addresses is the matter of water borne and fish borne pathogens. Part of the info required on the stocking permit application is the proposed source of the fish to be stocked. This is to ensure they are coming from a certified disease free hatchery facility to prevent the accidental introduction of diseases and/or invasive plant and animal species.

Also regarding your friend's pond, my initial suggestion would be to harvest or otherwise remove a certain percentage of those 'cookie-cutter' smaller bass and do so each year for at least the next 3 years to allow for a wider year-class distribution of bass. I had a friend in Blairstown years ago who had a small pond on his property with the same problem, loads of bass all about the same size. Some were clearly older fish whose growth had been stunted as evidenced by the large heads on smallish bodies. I removed about 3 dozen 10-12 inch bass the first year, about 20 14-15 inchers the second year along with about 50 yearlings, and about 50 yearlings the third year. By the fourth year he had a nice mix of fish from yearlings to approx. 18 inches along with an increase in the bluegill pop and more yellow perch than ever.

However you end up addressing the situation I wish you the best of luck! Having a small private 'sanctuary' to fish from time to time is great!

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:41 pm

Dave B. wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:54 pm
lightenup wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:20 pm
I hear snake heads and Asian carp are loads of fun to catch ;) ...The stocking permit..You make an excellent point!! Thanks....but, I still should not need a license to fish a private pond on private property...and how about those tax assessments?
As soon as it cools off a bit I will be fishing!!!!
If the pond is on your own property where you actually live then no license is required for you or any immediate family members residing on the property. The same rule applies to any river or stream sections flowing through your property, again provided you actually live there. It matters not if it's a stocked stream or not, your home, no license. However all other regs apply.
One other issue obtaining a stocking permit addresses is the matter of water borne and fish borne pathogens. Part of the info required on the stocking permit application is the proposed source of the fish to be stocked. This is to ensure they are coming from a certified disease free hatchery facility to prevent the accidental introduction of diseases and/or invasive plant and animal species.

Also regarding your friend's pond, my initial suggestion would be to harvest or otherwise remove a certain percentage of those 'cookie-cutter' smaller bass and do so each year for at least the next 3 years to allow for a wider year-class distribution of bass. I had a friend in Blairstown years ago who had a small pond on his property with the same problem, loads of bass all about the same size. Some were clearly older fish whose growth had been stunted as evidenced by the large heads on smallish bodies. I removed about 3 dozen 10-12 inch bass the first year, about 20 14-15 inchers the second year along with about 50 yearlings, and about 50 yearlings the third year. By the fourth year he had a nice mix of fish from yearlings to approx. 18 inches along with an increase in the bluegill pop and more yellow perch than ever.

However you end up addressing the situation I wish you the best of luck! Having a small private 'sanctuary' to fish from time to time is great!
This may be the most informative response I have ever read on an internet forum.Thank you for the information.. :idea:

garden hackle
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by garden hackle » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm

lightenup wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:41 pm
Dave B. wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:54 pm
lightenup wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:20 pm
I hear snake heads and Asian carp are loads of fun to catch ;) ...The stocking permit..You make an excellent point!! Thanks....but, I still should not need a license to fish a private pond on private property...and how about those tax assessments?
As soon as it cools off a bit I will be fishing!!!!
If the pond is on your own property where you actually live then no license is required for you or any immediate family members residing on the property. The same rule applies to any river or stream sections flowing through your property, again provided you actually live there. It matters not if it's a stocked stream or not, your home, no license. However all other regs apply.
One other issue obtaining a stocking permit addresses is the matter of water borne and fish borne pathogens. Part of the info required on the stocking permit application is the proposed source of the fish to be stocked. This is to ensure they are coming from a certified disease free hatchery facility to prevent the accidental introduction of diseases and/or invasive plant and animal species.

Also regarding your friend's pond, my initial suggestion would be to harvest or otherwise remove a certain percentage of those 'cookie-cutter' smaller bass and do so each year for at least the next 3 years to allow for a wider year-class distribution of bass. I had a friend in Blairstown years ago who had a small pond on his property with the same problem, loads of bass all about the same size. Some were clearly older fish whose growth had been stunted as evidenced by the large heads on smallish bodies. I removed about 3 dozen 10-12 inch bass the first year, about 20 14-15 inchers the second year along with about 50 yearlings, and about 50 yearlings the third year. By the fourth year he had a nice mix of fish from yearlings to approx. 18 inches along with an increase in the bluegill pop and more yellow perch than ever.

However you end up addressing the situation I wish you the best of luck! Having a small private 'sanctuary' to fish from time to time is great!
This may be the most informative response I have ever read on an internet forum.Thank you for the information.. :idea:
This might be more informative, just being a property owner is not enough, from the F&W regulation (I added underline):
LICENSE EXCEPTIONS

Anglers Under 16 - No fishing license is required of persons under 16 years old.
NJ Residents Age 70 and Over - State residents 70 and older are exempt from fishing license and Trout Stamp requirements. A driver license or other acceptable proof of age containing date of birth and physical description will function as the actual fishing license/trout stamp for New Jersey residents 70 and over.

Fishing On a Farm - Farmers and family members that live on a farm do not need a license to fish on their farm, but must obey all fishing regulations.

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:47 pm

garden hackle wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm
lightenup wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:41 pm
Dave B. wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:54 pm


If the pond is on your own property where you actually live then no license is required for you or any immediate family members residing on the property. The same rule applies to any river or stream sections flowing through your property, again provided you actually live there. It matters not if it's a stocked stream or not, your home, no license. However all other regs apply.
One other issue obtaining a stocking permit addresses is the matter of water borne and fish borne pathogens. Part of the info required on the stocking permit application is the proposed source of the fish to be stocked. This is to ensure they are coming from a certified disease free hatchery facility to prevent the accidental introduction of diseases and/or invasive plant and animal species.

Also regarding your friend's pond, my initial suggestion would be to harvest or otherwise remove a certain percentage of those 'cookie-cutter' smaller bass and do so each year for at least the next 3 years to allow for a wider year-class distribution of bass. I had a friend in Blairstown years ago who had a small pond on his property with the same problem, loads of bass all about the same size. Some were clearly older fish whose growth had been stunted as evidenced by the large heads on smallish bodies. I removed about 3 dozen 10-12 inch bass the first year, about 20 14-15 inchers the second year along with about 50 yearlings, and about 50 yearlings the third year. By the fourth year he had a nice mix of fish from yearlings to approx. 18 inches along with an increase in the bluegill pop and more yellow perch than ever.

However you end up addressing the situation I wish you the best of luck! Having a small private 'sanctuary' to fish from time to time is great!
This may be the most informative response I have ever read on an internet forum.Thank you for the information.. :idea:
This might be more informative, just being a property owner is not enough, from the F&W regulation (I added underline):
LICENSE EXCEPTIONS

Anglers Under 16 - No fishing license is required of persons under 16 years old.
NJ Residents Age 70 and Over - State residents 70 and older are exempt from fishing license and Trout Stamp requirements. A driver license or other acceptable proof of age containing date of birth and physical description will function as the actual fishing license/trout stamp for New Jersey residents 70 and over.

Fishing On a Farm - Farmers and family members that live on a farm do not need a license to fish on their farm, but must obey all fishing regulations.
Thanks, does it have to be a farm, or will any private property with a pond fall under this reg? Another question, I know plenty of people who claim farm tax, but it really isn't a farm, so is the classification come under farm for them, or is it different? These questions don't really have any pertinence to anything, I'm just curious..

garden hackle
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by garden hackle » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:35 pm

Farm?

Naw, that was probably a typo and they really meant any private property.

Or, they could have really meant a farm.

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:29 am

lightenup wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:47 pm
garden hackle wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm
lightenup wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:41 pm


This may be the most informative response I have ever read on an internet forum.Thank you for the information.. :idea:
This might be more informative, just being a property owner is not enough, from the F&W regulation (I added underline):
LICENSE EXCEPTIONS

Anglers Under 16 - No fishing license is required of persons under 16 years old.
NJ Residents Age 70 and Over - State residents 70 and older are exempt from fishing license and Trout Stamp requirements. A driver license or other acceptable proof of age containing date of birth and physical description will function as the actual fishing license/trout stamp for New Jersey residents 70 and over.

Fishing On a Farm - Farmers and family members that live on a farm do not need a license to fish on their farm, but must obey all fishing regulations.
Thanks, does it have to be a farm, or will any private property with a pond fall under this reg? Another question, I know plenty of people who claim farm tax, but it really isn't a farm, so is the classification come under farm for them, or is it different? These questions don't really have any pertinence to anything, I'm just curious..
In NJ, a "farm" is any land that is farmland assessed. It needs to be at least 5 acres in size without structures and it could be lands like forests under a Forestry Stewardship Management Plan (I think a Forest Management Plan also suffices). It does not have to have row crops or cattle to qualify as a farm in NJ. For example, my buddy owns a 14 acre pond and has most of his lands in farmland assessment via a forestry stewardship management plan. He and his family members can fish that pond without a license, but I cannot even though I have a lease on the property. I don't live there is why I need a license to fish that same pond.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:21 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:29 am
lightenup wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:47 pm
garden hackle wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm


This might be more informative, just being a property owner is not enough, from the F&W regulation (I added underline):

Thanks, does it have to be a farm, or will any private property with a pond fall under this reg? Another question, I know plenty of people who claim farm tax, but it really isn't a farm, so is the classification come under farm for them, or is it different? These questions don't really have any pertinence to anything, I'm just curious..
In NJ, a "farm" is any land that is farmland assessed. It needs to be at least 5 acres in size without structures and it could be lands like forests under a Forestry Stewardship Management Plan (I think a Forest Management Plan also suffices). It does not have to have row crops or cattle to qualify as a farm in NJ. For example, my buddy owns a 14 acre pond and has most of his lands in farmland assessment via a forestry stewardship management plan. He and his family members can fish that pond without a license, but I cannot even though I have a lease on the property. I don't live there is why I need a license to fish that same pond.
Let's say I own a property that is not farm assessed, and it has a pond on it, with fish...what then? Some people get farm assessment by selling a small amount of produce from a garden as well....

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:55 pm

lightenup wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:21 pm
Rusty Spinner wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:29 am
lightenup wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:47 pm


Thanks, does it have to be a farm, or will any private property with a pond fall under this reg? Another question, I know plenty of people who claim farm tax, but it really isn't a farm, so is the classification come under farm for them, or is it different? These questions don't really have any pertinence to anything, I'm just curious..
In NJ, a "farm" is any land that is farmland assessed. It needs to be at least 5 acres in size without structures and it could be lands like forests under a Forestry Stewardship Management Plan (I think a Forest Management Plan also suffices). It does not have to have row crops or cattle to qualify as a farm in NJ. For example, my buddy owns a 14 acre pond and has most of his lands in farmland assessment via a forestry stewardship management plan. He and his family members can fish that pond without a license, but I cannot even though I have a lease on the property. I don't live there is why I need a license to fish that same pond.
Let's say I own a property that is not farm assessed, and it has a pond on it, with fish...what then? Some people get farm assessment by selling a small amount of produce from a garden as well....
If the land is not farmland assessed, you need to buy a fishing license like the rest of us. Stop being so cheap, you can afford $.06 per day to fish in this state :lol:
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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lightenup
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Re: Pond Rehab and Stocking

Post by lightenup » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:34 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:55 pm
lightenup wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:21 pm
Rusty Spinner wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:29 am


In NJ, a "farm" is any land that is farmland assessed. It needs to be at least 5 acres in size without structures and it could be lands like forests under a Forestry Stewardship Management Plan (I think a Forest Management Plan also suffices). It does not have to have row crops or cattle to qualify as a farm in NJ. For example, my buddy owns a 14 acre pond and has most of his lands in farmland assessment via a forestry stewardship management plan. He and his family members can fish that pond without a license, but I cannot even though I have a lease on the property. I don't live there is why I need a license to fish that same pond.
Let's say I own a property that is not farm assessed, and it has a pond on it, with fish...what then? Some people get farm assessment by selling a small amount of produce from a garden as well....
If the land is not farmland assessed, you need to buy a fishing license like the rest of us. Stop being so cheap, you can afford $.06 per day to fish in this state :lol:
Thanks, I have my license, I also don't have a private pond... ;)

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