Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

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Twism86
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Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Twism86 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:04 am

https://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2 ... in_nj.html

The title says it all but I find it rather appalling that Murphy is blatantly ignoring research done by F&W, one of HIS OWN departments, and making such a ruling. I hope it can be overturned... The report by F&W that is linked in the article clearly says that Murphy's idea of "non-lethal" methods, AKA relocation, will not be effective.

There is also the fact that the bear hunt is a revenue source from the sale of tags and reduced cost to F&W from having to remove nuisance bears themselves. I know I dont have to tell everyone on GST all of this, as conservationists we are aware of the benefits of hunting, but I figured I should post what our dumb ass of a Governor is up to now.

Tom
"Stupidity is scary but genius can be frightening.
Genius built the atom bomb. Genius topples nations."

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lightenup
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by lightenup » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:44 pm

Isn't it fashionable in politics these days to ignore things that "other departments" inform you of? It's all fake news, no? ;) :evil:

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Pete
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Pete » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:17 pm

He's managed to piss everybody off.
The anti's don't think he went far enough, and are expressing regret for ever supporting him.

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46er
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by 46er » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:40 pm

The DWGNRA will be crowded this bear season. If he keeps doing what he has been, then Mad Dog Murphy might just be a one term Gov and he'll retire to his estate in Germany or his villa in Italy. The farmer's in south Jersey won't take to having them relocated there, the deer are causing them enough losses.
aka; Ralph

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Rusty Spinner » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:21 am

With 6 weeks to go before the archery bear season, there will be a lawsuit to overturn this EO which appears in every way to be unconstitutional. Our state supreme court has taken up this issue at least twice before, so they will likely see it fast tracked to them in coming days and weeks. His reason of "for public safety" alone is a non-starter. NJ has had zero bear hunting injuries (to hunters and/or the general public) since being reinstated ten or so years ago (with some years not seeing a hunt over that time). This is political pandering at its worst, and he will successfully build the Dems November election coffers for pandering to his base. It is funny that the anti beartards are not happy with him because he let them down and they know many bears will still be killed on private properties and county and town owned lands throughout the northern areas of the state this fall. It suddenly motivates me to chase them with my bow this year and shoot the first one that walks past while deer hunting. I have access to a nice piece of private forest in Sparta that I manage for a friend that owns it. I think of myself as a deer hunter with a bear tag each year and have only killed one and passed several others while helping a buddy get his the other year.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

Bubba Zinetti
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Bubba Zinetti » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:29 am

Not a hunter. Libbiest lib that ever libbed. I agree with Twism and Rusty. Ignoring the scientists, and having no management plan in place is just bad policy. Rusty, the "anti's" are a very small, but vocal community. There is a way to reach out to conservationists while ignoring the or diminishing the anti's. The main way is guys like me who stand up at my Democratic committee meeting and proudly declare that I am a sportsman, I support open space, clean water in our rivers and lakes and a scientific approach to wildlife management. The other way is for you (or someone like you) to attend democratic committee meetings and explain why on issues like this and open space and clean water we can all agree. It will require the person doing this to be diplomatic, but I have seen it done successfully.

Not only can it be done, it should be done. The hikers, horseback riders, mountain bikers etc all have a stake, as well as the hook and bullet crowd. You will NEVER convince some people, but there are plenty of smart, informed and engaged people who need to hear a reasoned explanation as to why banning the bear hunt is bad policy beyond "We want to save these beautiful creatures"

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Rusty Spinner
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Rusty Spinner » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:53 am

Bubba Zinetti wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:29 am
Not a hunter. Libbiest lib that ever libbed. I agree with Twism and Rusty. Ignoring the scientists, and having no management plan in place is just bad policy. Rusty, the "anti's" are a very small, but vocal community. There is a way to reach out to conservationists while ignoring the or diminishing the anti's. The main way is guys like me who stand up at my Democratic committee meeting and proudly declare that I am a sportsman, I support open space, clean water in our rivers and lakes and a scientific approach to wildlife management. The other way is for you (or someone like you) to attend democratic committee meetings and explain why on issues like this and open space and clean water we can all agree. It will require the person doing this to be diplomatic, but I have seen it done successfully.

Not only can it be done, it should be done. The hikers, horseback riders, mountain bikers etc all have a stake, as well as the hook and bullet crowd. You will NEVER convince some people, but there are plenty of smart, informed and engaged people who need to hear a reasoned explanation as to why banning the bear hunt is bad policy beyond "We want to save these beautiful creatures"
Sometimes I can't share everything I know in an open public forum, but I can tell you that what you suggest does and always has happened. But despite talking calmly and with facts, some people on either side of the political aisle just aren't going to listen. Take this bear hunt, for example. Murphy sent his new DEP Commission McCabe to speak with Division staff twice about ending the bear hunt, and both times she left knowing that the bear hunt aspect was a critical part of the Comprehensive Black Bear Management Plan which is the plan NJ uses of which hunting is a part. She was shown the science that not only NJ has produced, but many states have produced and all reach the same conclusions when it comes to managing the numbers of black bears, including surrounding states' reports and studies. But she was shunned both times by her boss, and now she must just enforce his illegal (by my estimation) Executive Order or she can quit her job which I highly doubt. However, sportsmen did intervene some months ago to get Murphy off his foolish desire to "ban all 50 caliber weapons". Had he been successful in doing so, all muzzleloaders used for deer and bear would have been illegal as would all 12 gauge and 10 gauge shotguns. All because he (Murphy) was likely told that weapons like a .50 BMG existed and they are capable with the right ammo of shooting through armor. Weapons like that freak out many on the left, although perhaps not you who are far more educated. Whenever the left fears something it doesn't understand, their first response is to ban it. So you begin the education process at that point and hope the people you are talking with understand and can separate emotions from fact. Some can and some cannot.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

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lightenup
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by lightenup » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:32 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:53 am
Bubba Zinetti wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:29 am
Not a hunter. Libbiest lib that ever libbed. I agree with Twism and Rusty. Ignoring the scientists, and having no management plan in place is just bad policy. Rusty, the "anti's" are a very small, but vocal community. There is a way to reach out to conservationists while ignoring the or diminishing the anti's. The main way is guys like me who stand up at my Democratic committee meeting and proudly declare that I am a sportsman, I support open space, clean water in our rivers and lakes and a scientific approach to wildlife management. The other way is for you (or someone like you) to attend democratic committee meetings and explain why on issues like this and open space and clean water we can all agree. It will require the person doing this to be diplomatic, but I have seen it done successfully.

Not only can it be done, it should be done. The hikers, horseback riders, mountain bikers etc all have a stake, as well as the hook and bullet crowd. You will NEVER convince some people, but there are plenty of smart, informed and engaged people who need to hear a reasoned explanation as to why banning the bear hunt is bad policy beyond "We want to save these beautiful creatures"
Sometimes I can't share everything I know in an open public forum, but I can tell you that what you suggest does and always has happened. But despite talking calmly and with facts, some people on either side of the political aisle just aren't going to listen. Take this bear hunt, for example. Murphy sent his new DEP Commission McCabe to speak with Division staff twice about ending the bear hunt, and both times she left knowing that the bear hunt aspect was a critical part of the Comprehensive Black Bear Management Plan which is the plan NJ uses of which hunting is a part. She was shown the science that not only NJ has produced, but many states have produced and all reach the same conclusions when it comes to managing the numbers of black bears, including surrounding states' reports and studies. But she was shunned both times by her boss, and now she must just enforce his illegal (by my estimation) Executive Order or she can quit her job which I highly doubt. However, sportsmen did intervene some months ago to get Murphy off his foolish desire to "ban all 50 caliber weapons". Had he been successful in doing so, all muzzleloaders used for deer and bear would have been illegal as would all 12 gauge and 10 gauge shotguns. All because he (Murphy) was likely told that weapons like a .50 BMG existed and they are capable with the right ammo of shooting through armor. Weapons like that freak out many on the left, although perhaps not you who are far more educated. Whenever the left fears something it doesn't understand, their first response is to ban it. So you begin the education process at that point and hope the people you are talking with understand and can separate emotions from fact. Some can and some cannot.
I agree with this...I also think that both sides of the aisle refuse to understand things that that they fear, not only the left, but the right as well....I stand firmly with the middle and science!!!!! :D

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Pete
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Pete » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:23 pm

This was already explained to you during the McGreedy/Corslime era.
Am I the only one who remembers?

People in "Bear Country" vote predominately Republican.
Democrat Governors want the bears to eat all the Republican voters.

garden hackle
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by garden hackle » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:46 pm

lightenup wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:32 pm

I agree with this...I also think that both sides of the aisle refuse to understand things that that they fear, not only the left, but the right as well....I stand firmly with the middle and science!!!!! :D
I agree, ignoring science is not just a one political side story. Science is the best knowledge until something else is proven, always getting more accurate.

You think a governor is screwing things up because he doesn’t listen to science, our environment is going to suffer for decades because of just four years of calling science “Fake”.

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46er
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by 46er » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:06 pm

Some folks think this is just the beginning of something more restrictive, a step on the ladder so to speak, in the efforts to control, or end entirely, firearm possession in the state. After all, what would Joe Average in NJ need a firearm for if there were no hunting? It sounds preposterous, until you give it some thought; they may be on to something. The magazine injunction hearing was scheduled for mid-August, but no news yet.
aka; Ralph

Bubba Zinetti
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Bubba Zinetti » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:47 am

Rusty, I know that some people do talk about conservation across the political spectrum. I have been part of that. I also know that there are plenty of assholes who won't give an honest listen. I asked a politician the same questions about the 50 caliber ban, and got hand waving. I explained the same thing you explained about muzzle loaders etc.., more hand waving. He was not re-elected partly due to hunters who rallied against him.

I will never stop trying to explain and educate regarding conservation. Hopefully the extremes will be marginalized, and more sensible voices will be amplified.

garden hackle
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by garden hackle » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:00 pm

If enough people asked the supermarkets to start stocking bear meat, then there wouldn't be any need to have a bear hunt, people can just get their bear meat at the store where they make all kinds of meat in their factories.

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Pete
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Pete » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:26 am

Ban on bear hunting on state land could endanger federal aid
More ... https://www.dailyrecord.com/story/sport ... 092891002/

All things considered, he probably didn't consult Sweeney, but he's being ill served by his advisors if they didn't tell him why some of his predecessors failed.

Don't these ex-governors talk to each other anymore?

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Drossi
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Drossi » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:58 pm

The only "science" politicians (irregardless of party affiliation) really care about is the science of liberating you from your earnings!

Institutionalized racketeering....

He wants legalized weed, add that to a gun ban.....and you'll have high criminals knowing citizens are in unarmed homes....think there's issues with home invasions and break in's now.....wait....
You're NOT worthy
Purveyor of the dark art of the long rod
slingin' cane

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Pete
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Pete » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:55 pm

In case you haven't heard, and enjoy it when extremists make fools of themselves...
https://www.njherald.com/20181010/photo ... ir-at-hunt

Halliday
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Halliday » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:34 pm

He's just another multi millionaire Goldman Sachs liberal who's thinks he knows whats best. Cruise through Rumson and see where he lives. The guy is a dyed in the wool jackass.

Johnw
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by Johnw » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:23 am

I agree but he doesn't live in Rumson FYI

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46er
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by 46er » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:52 pm

Johnw wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:23 am
I agree but he doesn't live in Rumson FYI
For the record, public info.

http://njparcels.com/property/1332/1043/52
aka; Ralph

garden hackle
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Re: Idiot Governor Ignores Science, Bans Bear Hunting on State Land

Post by garden hackle » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:44 am

Politicians ignoring science is not just limited to our current governor, nor is it isolated to bear hunting. There is a whole climate of topics that politicians are ignoring science while making policies and laws. And it is not just ignoring the science, some politicians embrace the ignorance and display the ignorance proudly. Remember: “I am not a scientist...”

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