nj brookies... ever again?

All about trout fishing in the great Garden State!
robtf
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:56 am

nj brookies... ever again?

Post by robtf » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:57 pm

ok, this was posted on another board:

"You will never EVER see Brook Trout stocked in New Jersey again, and I heard that from the top ! Which is a damn shame considering what I saw come out of the Raritan river."

what say ye? do you think NJ will ever go back to stocking our native trout again? (no less, browns)

of course, yuz who fish wild pops don't care... it's us poor folk that do (piscematically speaking, of course)
----

living in the land of clammies

NJpatbee
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by NJpatbee » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:34 pm

I believe we should never stock a brook trout where wild populations of brook trout exist. However, I would like to see brook trout stocked in a stream like the Toms River where they appear to thrive year round but there is no known spawning.

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by coaltrout » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:30 pm

NJpatbee wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:34 pm
I believe we should never stock a brook trout where wild populations of brook trout exist. However, I would like to see brook trout stocked in a stream like the Toms River where they appear to thrive year round but there is no known spawning.
This idea Im fond of, bring back stocking of brookies (and browns) but select where they go, not just everywhere which could affect current populations.
Ex: dont stock brook or brown trout anywhere one could swim to a wild brookie population, only keep rainbows there. But put the stocked browns+brookies in non-trout waters.
However I believe not bringing back the two could be for other reasons, such as raising the other two are more costly and the rainbows are easier to grow big + in numbers?

Castaline
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 3:39 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Castaline » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:30 am

I often wonder why NJ is so much different from surrounding Eastern states? Do they think they have it figured out? Look at PA... tons of streams with naturally reproducing browns and stocked browns and brookies in the tribs and so forth. They get stocked brook trout too... And honestly a stream like the Brodheads seems to do very well with a stocking mix.

Oh and every other state seems to have it figured out how to raise and stock browns but ours? Yeah OK we had a disease problem. Could we ever get over it? and correct it for the future? Is it because our hatchery is just one big one and its too hard (expensive) (possibly poorly designed) to do anything else besides crank out rainbows. Are they hiding behind what they think is correct science to get to a cheaper and more easily run hatchery?

Other states have biologists too and they don't care what they stock? They have valid reasons to stock browns and can seem to pull it off quite well. Out of the question here?

I do think the hatchery does a good job cranking out cookie cutter rainbows but why are we only limited the that years after the disease outbreak?

Jaybird
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:23 am

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Jaybird » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:35 am

I kinda like the idea we only stock rainbows , I'd love it if the clubs would only stock rainbows . Then flat out we would only have browns and brookies come from natural reproduction. I think the section of the south branch from bud lake down to long valley that's no longer being stocked except for clubs and maybe a few individuals, might be one of the most intriguing stretches of water in the state .

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by coaltrout » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:26 pm

Jaybird wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:35 am
I kinda like the idea we only stock rainbows , I'd love it if the clubs would only stock rainbows . Then flat out we would only have browns and brookies come from natural reproduction. I think the section of the south branch from bud lake down to long valley that's no longer being stocked except for clubs and maybe a few individuals, might be one of the most intriguing stretches of water in the state .
I see what you mean but I think the better answer is to stock all species but just be careful where they are stocked. Upper South Branch can stay stocked with rainbows while the browns are all wild + some club stocked. (As well as keeping the budd lake-long valley stretch un-stocked)

There is great brown trout streams all over north jersey, I love it. I havent even explored it all yet and dont think I can anytime soon, especially with how im returning to stretches of the same creeks with how fun they are.
But stocking browns in the non-trout production water would be great for when im exploring the other rivers like the lower raritan waters.

As much as I love wild browns, folks in Jersey shouldnt have to fish these tiny creeks/small streams to find them. Get some brown trout in the bigger rivers; they will actually turn out holding over more than the rainbows in the marginal waters too.

NJpatbee
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by NJpatbee » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:17 pm

I believe that the Pequest hatchery needs to have covers installed over their concrete runways to prevent the disease that infected the browns and brook trout caused by bird droppings. The rainbows seem to have resistance to the disease. At this point my understanding is it is a matter of funding. Rusty might have an update from NJF&W.

BillSmith
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by BillSmith » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:59 pm

This is all correct to a point. It is true, you will never ever see Brook Trout stocked in New Jersey, the only exceptions would be a chemical spill of such that would wipe out a streams entire population of wild-native Brook Trout (then imported Brook Trout would be stocked)
All of this has NOTHING to do with BIRD POOP. It was a major political move to acquire federal dollars. Funny how they hire a Pathologist then the very next year a major infection wipes out the entire hatchery. They needed changes made to the hatchery and this was the best way to go about it. You do know Pennsylvania wanted those 30,000 Brook Trout we sent to the landfill. They can easily raise 15 inch Landlocked salmon but not one brown trout, go figure. These adjustments takes years.

User avatar
the royal coachman
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:47 am
Location: Hackettstown NJ

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by the royal coachman » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:31 am

Personally, I get bored catching only 10" rainbows. It has even affected how many trips for trout I take in a season. I'm not even sure those in charge will even care since I will still buy a fishing license.
I fish because the voices in my head tell me to.

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Rusty Spinner » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:59 am

Wow, some really crazy conspiracy theories. I love it :lol:

Pequest remains in a holding pattern until it can get the solar panels over the tops of the raceways, and until that happens, the Division will not attempt to raise browns or brookies. Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard. It's just that the lack of support from Trenton in getting this done has delayed things by several more years. The idea is to bring in browns first, but they need to source a furunculosis resistant strain and then bring those into the hatchery and build up stock for a couple of years before we see that species stocked again. Brookies are much further behind, if at all, and those would never be released into native brook trout waters again.

The Division mishandled the furunculosis outbreak and that much is clear, but the Director at the time is long retired and we are now at his second replacement. We should have just stocked those fish or agreed to sell them to PA which routinely stocks diseased fish (each angler can decide what he/she thinks of that policy for themselves). During that time, all fish rearing at Pequest and Hackettstown was taken away from the Chief of Freshwater Fisheries who was in charge previously. That created lots of rifts within senior Division staff, but those wounds have healed and the Chief once again has control over both hatcheries and her biologist staff. This is and will remain an issue centered around solar panels covering the trout raceways. If anyone tries to tell you differently, they are not in the know.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Rusty Spinner » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:59 am

Wow, some really crazy conspiracy theories. I love it :lol:

Pequest remains in a holding pattern until it can get the solar panels over the tops of the raceways, and until that happens, the Division will not attempt to raise browns or brookies. Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard. It's just that the lack of support from Trenton in getting this done has delayed things by several more years. The idea is to bring in browns first, but they need to source a furunculosis resistant strain and then bring those into the hatchery and build up stock for a couple of years before we see that species stocked again. Brookies are much further behind, if at all, and those would never be released into native brook trout waters again.

The Division mishandled the furunculosis outbreak and that much is clear, but the Director at the time is long retired and we are now at his second replacement. We should have just stocked those fish or agreed to sell them to PA which routinely stocks diseased fish (each angler can decide what he/she thinks of that policy for themselves). During that time, all fish rearing at Pequest and Hackettstown was taken away from the Chief of Freshwater Fisheries who was in charge previously. That created lots of rifts within senior Division staff, but those wounds have healed and the Chief once again has control over both hatcheries and her biologist staff. This is and will remain an issue centered around solar panels covering the trout raceways. If anyone tries to tell you differently, they are not in the know.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

robtf
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:56 am

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by robtf » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:17 am

All, thanks for the comments, conspiracy theories and all :D

Brian,

with respect to "solar panels"... Am I understanding it's not solar panels per se, but covering the raceways, that is blocking rearing brooks or browns?
or is there something else regarding the "solar panels" that is the issue?

How do we light a fire under Trenton? Do we all need to support a weed bill or something? It sure seems Murphy smokes enough of it on his own!

Rob
----

living in the land of clammies

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by coaltrout » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:22 am

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:59 am
Pequest remains in a holding pattern until it can get the solar panels over the tops of the raceways, and until that happens, the Division will not attempt to raise browns or brookies. Absolutely nothing has changed in that regard. It's just that the lack of support from Trenton in getting this done has delayed things by several more years. The idea is to bring in browns first, but they need to source a furunculosis resistant strain and then bring those into the hatchery and build up stock for a couple of years before we see that species stocked again. Brookies are much further behind, if at all, and those would never be released into native brook trout waters again.
The only thing stopping them from re-introducing browns is a top? Have they considered a makeshift top while waiting for the solar panels? I cant believe how slow it has been and I dont quite understand the situation; does trenton think the solar panels are too costly and wont approve? Could the hatchery suggest a basic top without solar panels and get these brown trout going? to some extent I think trenton should approve the project by now, but I really think it's lame how the hatchery hasnt took action waiting this long to figure something else out while they wait for panels.

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Rusty Spinner » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:59 am

robtf wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:17 am
All, thanks for the comments, conspiracy theories and all :D

Brian,

with respect to "solar panels"... Am I understanding it's not solar panels per se, but covering the raceways, that is blocking rearing brooks or browns?
or is there something else regarding the "solar panels" that is the issue?

How do we light a fire under Trenton? Do we all need to support a weed bill or something? It sure seems Murphy smokes enough of it on his own!

Rob
The tops are part of the solar panels which were promised a couple of years ago now, but keep getting bumped down the list in Trenton. I have to admit not knowing what their current status is, but will make some calls to find out and post here now that I am home for a couple of weeks before heading back out on a restoration job.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

BillSmith
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by BillSmith » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am

Takes a long time to get Federal $$$ Not sure how solar panels stop bird poop, but whatever. Those are some CHOICE 15 inch Land Locked Salmon reared and stocked by the Division though !

User avatar
cappy
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:22 pm
Location: On the River

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by cappy » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:00 am

BillSmith wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am
Takes a long time to get Federal $$$ Not sure how solar panels stop bird poop, but whatever. Those are some CHOICE 15 inch Land Locked Salmon reared and stocked by the Division though !
I believe they are trying to kill two birds with one stone. Cover the runs and lower operating costs.

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Rusty Spinner » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:32 am

BillSmith wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am
Takes a long time to get Federal $$$ Not sure how solar panels stop bird poop, but whatever. Those are some CHOICE 15 inch Land Locked Salmon reared and stocked by the Division though !
Not sure what federal money you are referring to? The solar panels have nothing to do with federal funding. Also, the landlocks are reared in Massachusetts and fattened up in the Hackettstown Hatchery before being stocked, not raised at Pequest. And the solar panels don't stop bird poop, but the covers over the raceway that will hold them do.
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

User avatar
coaltrout
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by coaltrout » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:56 pm

Rusty Spinner wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:32 am
BillSmith wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am
Takes a long time to get Federal $$$ Not sure how solar panels stop bird poop, but whatever. Those are some CHOICE 15 inch Land Locked Salmon reared and stocked by the Division though !
Not sure what federal money you are referring to? The solar panels have nothing to do with federal funding. Also, the landlocks are reared in Massachusetts and fattened up in the Hackettstown Hatchery before being stocked, not raised at Pequest. And the solar panels don't stop bird poop, but the covers over the raceway that will hold them do.
I wonder why the covers arent up yet, Id think if the solar panels are on hold then just put up the covers now.

User avatar
Rusty Spinner
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm
Location: Flanders, NJ
Contact:

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by Rusty Spinner » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:40 am

coaltrout wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:56 pm
Rusty Spinner wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:32 am
BillSmith wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 am
Takes a long time to get Federal $$$ Not sure how solar panels stop bird poop, but whatever. Those are some CHOICE 15 inch Land Locked Salmon reared and stocked by the Division though !
Not sure what federal money you are referring to? The solar panels have nothing to do with federal funding. Also, the landlocks are reared in Massachusetts and fattened up in the Hackettstown Hatchery before being stocked, not raised at Pequest. And the solar panels don't stop bird poop, but the covers over the raceway that will hold them do.
I wonder why the covers arent up yet, Id think if the solar panels are on hold then just put up the covers now.
It will all be under a single state bid for contractors to do the entire job from what I understand. I think PSEG is also involved. There is a tie-in to the removal of the Columbia Lake dam which used to generate a small amount of hydro electric power and one of the trade-offs for relinquishing that FERC license prior to dam removal was a swap for solar at Pequest. There are many, many moving parts, so those that think the Division should just be able to do whatever it takes don't understand the intricacies of complex projects with multiple partners played out through a state's governmental process. They don't call it "red tape" for nothing!
"A sinking fly is closer to Hell" - Unknown

BillSmith
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: nj brookies... ever again?

Post by BillSmith » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:52 pm

So they order take out for LasndLocked, so 3 lakes can benefit. Why not order Brown trout instead so the WHOLE STATE can benefit, oh yeah, that make too much sense.

Post Reply